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Re: Firmware 4.5.2 QC35 ii

@Cormacca   Germany Media Markt...

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Audible Advocate
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Jul 5, 2019

Re: Firmware 4.5.2 QC35 ii

Hello, has there been any results after you've visited customers? The ANC is still messed up on the QC3511. 

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Feb 5, 2020

Re: Firmware 4.5.2 QC35 ii

I just had qc35 ii a week ago just upgraded to new firmware and still feel the cabin pressure From anc which made me nauseous And nervous.  How much does it take for anyone to get used to it?  I know different people respond to anc differently.  I just like to have some ideas.  Thank you

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Re: Firmware 4.5.2 QC35 ii


@User-8d46 wrote:

I just had qc35 ii a week ago just upgraded to new firmware and still feel the cabin pressure From anc which made me nauseous And nervous.  How much does it take for anyone to get used to it?  I know different people respond to anc differently.  I just like to have some ideas.  Thank you


One or two weeks, wearing it everyday…

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Feb 14, 2020

Re: Firmware 4.5.2 QC35 ii

What is the latest update on this issue of firmware update?

 

I upgraded my Firmware on QC 35 ii to 4.5.2 and facing similar problems with ANC as reported by other users. My headphone is out of warranty so when I went ahead with raising "Service and Repair" request on Bose site which gave me option to replace this headphone by paying $ 209 for which I need to send my existing Bose headphone.

 

I am not sure why Bose does not give proper procedure to downgrade the firmware?  It is outrageous that Bose is asking to pay $ 209 for getting a replacement for a firmware fiasco which is done by Bose. Customers pay huge amount to buy such headphones and just with Firmware update we are at mercy of Bose. I am loosing creditability of Bose as a company.

 

I have tried all of below without any success with ANC - 

 

1) I tried to reset the headphone 2 times outlined by below procedure:

 

  1. Turn the headset off and wait for 30 seconds.
  2. Plug the headset into a USB power supply via USB cord and wait 5 seconds. (Power supply needs to be plugged into the wall with power on).
  3. Unplug USB cord from headset and wait 1 minute.
  4. Turn on the headset and test if the headset works properly.

2) I tried to downgrade the firmware below 4.5.2 version on both Mac and Windows machines. Both of these procedures requires connecting to Bose site- btu.bose.com but it looks like Bose has removed lower versions from their site which essentially means you cannot downgrade to lower versions.

 

[ Edited by moderator ] 

 

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Animated Arbiter
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Apr 30, 2019

Re: Firmware 4.5.2 QC35 ii

Well... seems like this is Bose.... moderators take time to moderate stuff they don’t like. Any real update is never given. Happy with my Sony now, totally lost faith in this company. 
They’ll never fix this, but rather let it silently fade away...

They just do not understand the customer is always right, and the quality name they had decreases to sub / below average.    

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Wistful Whiz
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Re: Firmware 4.5.2 QC35 ii

@pkhaire 

Having followed this for about 18 months or so, here is what I "know":

1. Not everyone who upgraded to 4.5.2 has the issue -  I have upgraded both ways - connect and web site to 4.5.2 and can still hear the difference

2. Not everyone who found a way to go to a previous firmware version ended up with a unit where you can tell the difference between low and high

3. It seems like most QC35s selling in the retail market do NOT come with 4.5.2 so perhaps you can do a retail exchange or buy and sell on eBay.

4. It is not obvious to me that firmware even has anything to do with the issue

5. No one here and it seems neither Bose has yet to definitively determine what the cause is and how to fix it.  That may or may not explain why Bose updated firmware 4 times in 2018 and mar and Jun 2019 and we haven't now seen any updates in 8 months.  Maybe it is related to the search for the cause or maybe not.  They have given updates here on the 4.5.2 issue (in a 'pinned post') but since last summer they have asked for people to help them and in Dec and last month said they have nothing new to add.  So we know they have had units given to them and they have interacted with customers but that's all we have heard in months.

6. In absence of any other data to suggest otherwise, I still think it could be a hardware issue where certain batches of chips that were supposed to work a certain way are not (we and the firmware assumes that every QC35ii internal chip and circuit behaves in an 'expected' way but perhaps some are faulty and do not).  If this turns out to be the case, Bose may 'quietly' perform exchanges but it is anyone's guess what they will do for out of warranty units.  There wouldn't be a recall as there was never a recall for the QC35i's that kept turning on due to a hardware issue with the on/off switch.

So it would be really hard to suggest what you can do at this point other than 'wait'.  But even if and when Bose determines the cause - if it is fixed with firmware you are in luck (we hope) but otherwise probably not (unless you can convince support for an exchange).

What we do know as you have seen with the removal of some of your post is the Bose back 2018 adopted a corporate policy of supporting and upgrading only the current firmware.  That isn't going to change any time soon.  And using a method like in other third party sites to downgrade firstly is not legal (Bose owns the copyright) and may not work anyway.

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Silent Starter
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Feb 16, 2020

Re: Firmware 4.5.2 QC35 ii

Hi,Bose

 

Seems the latest firmware version 4.5.2 did impact ANC of QCII cause former version as 3.1.8 was working before the upgrade. Here noticed offical BTU blocked and unable to roll back older version than 4.1.3, that's unacceptable and lead to inconvinence for cutomer experience and i have to call local service center but not sure if they can solve this issue. Could you escalate the investigation progress or provide some work-around before the furious complaints, thanks 

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Feb 16, 2020

Re: Firmware 4.5.2 QC35 ii

My thoughts about the 4.5.2 update:

 

(1) SOME KEY NOTES FOR BETTER UNDERSTANDING:

ANC and ANR are terms used for the very same technique, where C=cancelling verbally suggests more effect than R=reduction.

Further aspects: Playback sound manipulation (filters like equalizer, compressor) and classic noise-isolation applies to earpads and over-ear headsets.

As noise reduction basically works with phase shifted anti-noise signals inside the earcups, it has influence on desired playback signal and also produces more or less "pressure" feeling against eardrums.

Simplified, there are conflicting signals inside headset earcups: [noise from outside] + [played back signals inside] - [anti-noise signals inside] = resulting in a manipulated sound and other effects.

The question is how much manipulation is acceptable between sound quality v/s noise reduction and pressure feeling.

The answer will always be a compromise between these factors.

As we already know from experience, noise reduction works best against monotone noise in airplanes, trains etc. but less with voices or other sound in the midrange where our ears are most sensitive.

 

(2) ISSUE WITH UPDATE 4.5.2

(2.1) FOR NEW CUSTOMERS:

Most likely they have no problem with this version as they have no comparison to former version like 3.1.8 or earlier.

I did an extended side by comparison for 1 week and here is my individual(!) result:

Noise frequency range scale:

L=low, M=mid, H=high

Noise reduction scale by ranking:

1=very good ... 5=poor

All headphones with default settings

 

ANC/ANR (w/o playback signal):

L:1, M:3, H:4 = Bose QC35 II 4.5.2 (note: voice attenuation 25-30 dB w/ANR default high)

L:1, M:3, H:4 = Bose NC 700

L:1, M:2, H:3 = Sony WH-1000XM3 (individual settings available by app)

 

Audio quality:

L:2 M:2 H:3 Bose QC35 II 4.5.2 (sounds good balanced but too sharp treble 'sss')

L:2 M:2 H:3 Bose NC 700 (same as QC35)

L:3 M:2 H:2 Sony WH-1000XM3 (sounds unbalanced because too much bass - but adjustable by app, else very smooth)

 

(2.2) FOR REGULAR CUSTOMERS:

Back to history, my first Bose Model QC-1 was great in noise cancellation - a sensation in 2000-2004.

Even if audio quality was far below todays models - there was too much bass, acceptable mid range, poor treble, much pressure against eardrums - they were great in airplanes at this time.

 

ANC/ANR (w/o playback signal):

L:1, M:2, H:1 = Bose QC-1

Audio quality:

L:1, M:3, H:5 = Bose QC-1

 

Of course current technique can satisfy much higher claims but not ultimately perfect.

For those who got the 4.5.2 update on older QC-35, ANC lost about 6dB (right?) in the mid frequency range and that's clear to notice.

But what is the better solution: Better noise reduction or better sound.

As mentioned before: The answer will always be a compromise between these factors. Some like it this way others that way. As Bose does not provide individual settings like Sony, many customers claim a downgrade now, others wait for an update to solve their issue.

 

(3) BOSEs CURRENT OFFER:

Raise a claim using provided link in this forum or check other ways with them.

Then, depending on whatever condition, customers should get a new one (for free or at special price or nothing?).

But this does not solve the ANC issue because a new one does not have an old software version.

Subsequently and in fact Bose does obviously not intend to provide any software fix - neither a new update nor a downgrade. Otherwise they could give a statement.

 

(4) EXTERNAL SOLUTION:

External sources offer free downgrade with tricky actions and the warning "very risky".

Some experts confirmed ANC downgrade worked for them as expected or got only slightly better.

This proves downgrading is possible.

Bose only writes it is too risky to downgrade from 3rd party sources and deletes hints from this forum.

So why does Bose not provide a download solution for requested software version(s).

Unable and/or not willing?

 

CONCLUSION

The 4.5.2 issue remains a "mystery story".

 

Can a Moderator clarify and comment that please?

I said:

Can a Moderator clarify and comment that please?

PS: If not, then my statements must be right.

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Wistful Whiz
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Re: Firmware 4.5.2 QC35 ii

@lioi234918 

 

First and foremost, you'll be read more and be able to interact more with people on this issue if you spent time in the 2200+ comment post

https://community.bose.com/t5/Around-On-Ear-Headphones/Bose-QC-35-ii-firmware-4-5-2/m-p/274552#M5464...

Now I don't work for Bose and I do get that some fraction (who knows how much) of the QC35ii owners have an issue with ANC.  But why this has been going on from before 4.5.2 (at least a year now) and why there may not have been any firmware updates since last June (when before that they were coming out every 3 to 5 months), is not imho because Bose doesn't agree there is an 'issue', because the cause is not known.  Life would have been simple if everyone who upgraded had the issue.  Then we could blame it on the firmware.  I have upgraded mine twice (both with connect and online) and my ANC works fine - clear difference between low and high for me.  I made some further comments in the current final page of the above post which you may or may not agree with.  Some of the customers solved the issue by finding a way to go back to an earlier firmware but (a) not everyone who did it who checked in here found relief and (b) Bose will in no way support or allow customers to do so.  We can scream about this forever with the support people but that is a corporate policy for all their products which went into effect in 2018 (I think).

Once you upgrade and lose the difference in ANC, some here suggest workarounds but from what I read there is no guaranteed way toward relief.  And escalation has already been done.  In fact, Bose has a pinned post here on the topic of ours and another one of theirs where they provide status updates every month or so.

And yes there have been furious complaints for over a year.  We don't know what the exact current status is because Bose won't share anything other than they are working on it.  We don't know if they found the cause or not and then when they do, what they will do about it.  I am personally not convinced it's a firmware or an upgrading issue but could imho be malfunctioning internal chipsets.  That is batches of sourced chips who behavior do not match the specs Bose had defined to or expected from those manufacturers.  That means every chip in the headset has a specific defined functional set but they all won't necessarily come from the same manufacturer.  Bose firmware expects certain behavior and I believe some of those batches made it through QA with problems / different behaviors.  That could explain why some QC35ii's behave differently from others with the same firmware.

My personal hope is that if it is indeed hardware, the Bose comes up with a firmware fix that takes the malfunctioning behavior into account.  Otherwise, the only other option would be an exchange program (and Bose does not do recalls as exhibited by the QC35i malfunctioning on/off switch mentioned elsewhere in this forum).

But then this is just my personal 'guess' at this point.....