Jim George
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Aug 16, 2016

Lifestyle 535 Series III

When is the new software update going to be available for the 535 console?  I have a new Sony DVD player (UHP-H1) and the remote controls "IR" code group is not recognized by the 535.  So, now I am back to mulitple remote controls to que up a movie. (Wifes not happy)  

 

I just found out that the 535 console does NOT have a "Learning" mode when it comes to pairing a remote control to it.  The 535 actually has a software data base of the most popular remote controls "IR Codes".  This data base is not from Bose but is created by a third party and only includes remote control IR codes up to the date of the software release. If you buy a new DVD player for instance, the 535 will not reconize it's set up "Unify" program. 

 

There hasn't been a software update for the 535 for well over two years.  The latest version is still 02.14.00 with Data Base ver 5.3.27.0.

 

Strangly enough, there is in the UNIFY program a "Learning" or "Teach Mode" for IR codes.  But this is for sending (not receiving) the Bose IR codes to "teach" a learning remote you may wish to use (not sure your would want to do this??) but doesn't work in the oposite direction.  That is, the UNIFY program will not "receive" IR codes from other remotes for it to "learn" from them.  It instead just compares the key touches it asks you to make in the UNIFY program with its outdated data base to try to find a match.  If an exact match isn't found, then the UNIFY program will not program the bose remote to control that external device - like my Sony UHP-H1 DVD player.

 

I would think this is a silly way for the 535 console to be designed to work as someone - like me - who only wants the best - AKA buying the 535 console -  will alos want the latest and greatest stuff connected to it.  But, if you buy a device of a newer date than the softward release - it is not going to work with the 535. I can go to K-Mart and for $19 buy a true "Learning" universal remote control.  Why wouldn't this "low end" tecnology be included in the 535?

 

That would be like haveing the most advanced Bose sound system - the 535 seriers III - NOT be compatable with 4K video.  Oh, sorry, I also just learned it can't do that either!!

 

Any help on when to expect an update or  way to pair my Sony's UHP-H1 DVD Player's remote to the 535 console would be appricated.

 

Jim George 

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OvQ
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Dec 13, 2014

Re: Lifestyle 535 Series III

I am curious about the same, too. Have you received an answer anywhere else yet, @Jim George?

Benito
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Jun 30, 2017

Re: Lifestyle 535 Series III

Hello Jim George,

It appears that by now, Bose hasn't solved the issue...  I'm trying to get the same Sony UHP-H1 up and running on a LifeStyle V35.  The player works fine with the original IR remote, but i'm unable to have the Unify remote operating the player.  Tried everything (even contacting Sony).

 

The only thing Bose support was able to tell was that they don't list the UHP-H1 and if I couldn't try for them one of the other preconfigured codes (manual installation)...
They also told me that my LifeStyle V35 was old (and superseded) and doubted if there would be an update soon, if ever...

 

For the time being, I use the Sony app on my iPhone.  That allows me to at least leave the doors shut when operating the UHP-H1.

 

Have you been able to solve the issue yet?

 

Ben.

Jim George
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Aug 16, 2016

Re: Lifestyle 535 Series III

As to your and others’ question: Did I fix my problems with my LS535 Unit:

Yes, I "fixed" the issue:  I upgraded to the new LS650. 

After countless discussions with Bose, it was apparent that the 535 has been put out to pasture and no further updates or fixes will be forth coming. 

Knowing that, the writing was on the wall that any new device I might purchase to connect to my 535 was going to fall in line my Sony Blu-ray UHP-H1, that is – that the Bose LS535 would not work with it.  As I only owned the 535 for less than a year, even thought it was at great cost, I just didn't want to live with it any longer. I “buy Stuff” to be happy – I was NOT happy!

 I always buy high quality “leading edge” items but keep them a long time.  It was apparent I couldn't keep the 535 as my wife just will not tolerate a basket full of remote controls to watch TV.  So, I took my lumps and bought the LS650. 

During my discussions with Bose and countless hours of on line research on the 535, I came to the same conclusions that Bose did on the 535 – that is - it was not fixable.  Why: 

  1. It's hardware (HDMI connectors and switching relays) were not capable of supporting the 4K signal band width. This was actually a "surprise" to Bose as they originally believed a software fix is all that was needed. But their supplier (they now moved their production and teck support “off shore”) installed substandard HDMI components and Bose quality control team never caught it.  They were “taken” as most produces are when their dream of lowering their costs by moving production off shore gets the better of them.)  No matter what they did software wise – the 535 would never support 4K video signals. Other brands have been supporting 4K for over ten years yet Bose’s one year old 535 “top of the industry line” was incapable of it! 
  2. The design of the entire system to control attached device’s remote controls was hopelessly flawed.  It relied on a continues stream of software updates to add new remote-control IR codes for every new unit that any other brand happened to produce.  And again, not fixable via software - it needed a totally new design. 

Ten years ago, the entire industry (other than Bose) had adopted the “CEC” via HDMI connection format to control attached devices which did not rely on IR (infrared) codes. The industry had long ago adopted device connection via the HDMI connector format.  One line or channel of the HDMI connector design was dedicated to support the “CEC” control functions for all attached devices. 

If you have had older Sony equipment you will be familiar with this feature. Sony had a single line (bravo link) that chain linked (connected) all its equipment to allow the master unit to control all the attached units to turn them on and off, switch inputs, and basically controlled everything needed without using separate remote controls. When connect vie the Sony Bavo Link: if you put a disk in a DVD player, it automatically turned on the TV, switched the inputs to the proper settings, turned on the amplifier, and the movie just started playing without any other action. This is now called “CEC” and is the now (ten years ago) new universal format. (After all, they were running out of remote control IR code groups. So, they HAD to do something!!)

“CEC stands for Consumer Electronics Control which allows HDMI devices to control each other. Furthermore, it allows user to operate multiple devices with just one remote control. It is possible to command and control up-to ten CEC-enabled devices, that are connected through HDMI.”

See this link if you want to know more:

http://hdmicec.blogspot.com/2012/05/what-is-hdmi-cec-standard.html

So, Bose made the financial decision to just “walk away” from the 535 and start all over again - thus the LS650!

The LS650 no longer even cares what your remote controls IR codes are “IF” it is a CEC complaint device – which everything built in the last ten years (other than Bose) is!

Different that the 535 designs, the 650’s remote control sends to the Bose console via radio signal (not IR) what button I press and it then sends the instruction to the device connected via the HDMI port that I have selected to do whatever I directed it to do. It does NOT (as the 535 does) send out (broadcast) an IR coded signal to all in hopes the proper unit “sees” it and makes the proper function work. 

This is NOT without glitches as the CEC convention of codes and functions has “Matured” over time and older units may not respond correctly if they have built in older formats.  Not my issue as I always buy the latest and greatest! 

My current problem is that my cable box is NOT CEC compliant.  So, I am fighting a duel format system in that my 4k player, DVD blue ray player, TV, and the Bose console are all CEC compliant and work happily with each other. 

By this I mean: If I walk up to my system (just like a 20 year old Sony Bravo control system), hit door open on one of my DVD players, put in a DVD, press the door close, I can walk back to my chair, and by that time, the DVD player turns on, the TV turns on, the Bose console turns on and switches to the proper HMDI input, and the movie starts playing!! All good stuff!!  

The “BUT” comes in that my and most “rented” Cable TV box units are 20 years old in design and are Not CEC complaint.  So, to get it to work, (it still doesn’t) the Bose console has to default to the old IR code system. 

So, it sends out an IR blast hoping that the cable box “sees” it based again on a limited built in data base of IR codes (as the 535-unit had) trying to control the cable box and somehow trying to get the rest of the CEC controlled system (example the TV set) to turn on and switch to the cable box input.

One issue (like the 535), is that the IR code data base is incomplete, ancient, and will be impossible to keep up to date. So far, my cable box will not turn on or off via the Bose remote but amazingly, once I manually turn on my cable box (yes, stand up, walk to the unit, and press the on button) the Bose remote will change the channels and does do most other functions.  I am learning to live with that.  (But my wife is still not happy!)

Bose must have known of the conflict in CEC for older and newer equipment as they give you three options for the CEC function in the setup Unify program: CEC Default on, CEC Alternate ON, CEC Off.  But no one at teck support can explain what the heck the differences are between them??  There answer is to just: “Try each setting and let us know??”

The real issue is with running a spilt system “using CEC on some devices and IR code control on others” is that “IF” any IR code that the Bose console sends out is somehow received (and recognized) by any other CEC device then that device wakes up and sends its CEC signal to the Bose console and over rides the IR system and the Bose console switches to that CEC unit. So, you get a ping pong effect of units switching trying to turn on.  I “think” that the CEC Unify set up option of “CEC Alternate on” is supposed to help this out but not in my case.

What I need is a CEC compliant cable box and I may be at heaven’s gate – Happy wife!!

Another difference.  The 650 is totally dependent on and revolves around the Soundtouch feature.  It is no longer (like the 535) a separate component but a fully built in and integrated major function of the 650 unit.

Once you have sound touch up and running – another set up challenge – Bose teck support can remotely see what is going on with your system and they can be of greater help.  It is the sound touch system that actually helps the console work with WIFI and blue tooth connected devices.  I am not so sure of my knowledge on this as I am just now trying to work with it.

One thing I do know is that the Bose supplied group of Soundtouch Internet radio “channels” is a fixed set.  I love the Whispering Springs Piano channel and they offer (almost every 12 minutes) that if you pay them $30 a year you will not have to listen to their begging for money (just like NPR) and will have seamless beautiful music!  Ok, I logged on to their web site and paid.  But I still get all commercials asking for $$.  I called Whispering Springs Piano and they were amazed I was “listing” to them via my Bose Soundtouch system and said there was no way that I could change the “fixed” or packaged Soundtouch “stream”.  $30 waisted!!      

As the Bose product production was moved “off shore” the component quality has taken a great nose dive.  Most apparent is the Bose remote control itself.  This is what you hold in your hand and what you “interface” with 99% of the time.  Therefore, this is what you get the “feel” of the quality of the $4,000-dollar system you just paid for.  It has cheap feel compared to the LS535 remote.  My center upper circular control center button “squeaks” every time I press it.  It is rubbing against the adjacent buttons.  Teck support sent me a replacement but it has the same fault. SO. I just guess this is the way they all are??    

Another 535/650 difference: The “wireless” sub-woofer and rear speakers.  Not sure who was drinking what when the Bose design team was locked away in a hotel room when their investors said: “You guys go away and come up with a replacement for the failed 535 unit and don’t come out until you do!!”  “Wireless” speakers sound like a GREAT marking advantage!!   Yes, you say?? 

But the Wireless sub-woofer and rear speakers are anything but “WIRELESS”!  They require MORE wires as they now need a full 120Volt service line to work and they have a huge “brick” size adapter that is impossible to hid to work!  And they depend on a very feeble radio frequency system prone to interference (as everything else in your home is competing on the same radio system: aka: your wireless phone, your baby monitor, your remote weather sensors, your garage door opener, etc) to work!!

Not to mention that 80%+ of the folks out there, me included, are actually upgrading from a “wired” system and the “wires’ are already in place and just sitting there just waiting to be “hook-up”. Ok, you say, having the ability to use the new “Wireless” system is great if the old “hard wired” wires are NOT already in place.  But if they are, even though you just paid $4,000 for the 650 – they DO NOT provide in the box the two-dollar connector that would allow you to connect the wires directly to the console.  WHAT WERE THEY THINGING???

There was no need to change the way the speakers were connected to the console as 50% of the online complaints are due to the “Wireless” speaker system.  Please Bose, send me the $2 adapter so I can connect the sub-woofer and the remote speakers directly to my console and throw in the trash the so-called “Wireless” bricks that just don’t work!

One more issue with moving Bose “Off Shore”.  Teck support is now from the Philippines and I know more about the 650 then they do.  Apparently, when you call teck support, you get a “level one” guy.  That is the new guy that can help you with the basic set up issues.  But, if you have any issue at all, you need to move up to the second level of support. Unfortunately, most “issues” with the 650 are third level support issues and you basically learn and work them out between you both!  The standard answer is of course: Wait till the next software update and MAYBE they will address that issue??   WHO ARE THEY??? I want to talk to “THEY” – PLEASE!!!!

The old Axum still stands: “You pay peanuts - you get monkeys!”   

What was "right" with the 535/650 as with all Bose systems - was the sound!  It sounds great! 

Bose is ALL ABOUT the SOUND!!  If you want the most fantastic sound on the planet – then you have no other option than to go BOSE.  I live and (could die) by Bose as I am a pilot, my Bose head phones cancels out all the cockpit noise and makes the slurred radio instructions from Air traffic control intelligible!  Nothing on the planet sounds as clear and as good as Bose system – any Bose system.  I have so many Bose products in my like that if it makes a noise – it has BOSE on the label!!  Actually, my attic is full of past Bose “stuff.”  Anyone need a pair of 901s??? 

The new 650’s even smaller speakers really do sound as good as the 535’s larger versions.  The 535 speakers were small enough for me and I would assume for anyone else but the new 650 speakers are half the size and STILL sound as good.

In my living room, when I am watching a 4K movie and listening to the crisp clear quality of the sound – I just smile!!  Yes, it is well worth the software bugs and the frustration of trying to  get someone on the phone that actually knows what his is talking abort!! 

Bottom line:  For the rest of the 535 owners out there:  You only option is to change up the LS650. Yes, it will hurt, but it is worth it. (Sort of like child birth – you are pregnant with the 535 unit – the pain of child birth of the 650 unit is you only option for a contented life!) You can’t keep your legs crossed – it just doesn’t work like that!

Benito
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Jun 30, 2017

Re: Lifestyle 535 Series III and Sony UHP-H1

My, my, my... I'm so not convinced that I should feel happy, reading your answer...

 

OK, my LSV35 is 4 years old, but I invested in a $$$-setup.  My entire house is wired with cables (UTP and speaker wires), additional SA amps and Bose speakers, allowing the Bose to play in living room, bath room, kitchen, hobby room.  So i'm not sure that removing the Sony UHP-H1 remote on the table will get approval of "the board" 😉 when I tell that 4500 EUR extra "may" solve the problem...

 

Even if I switched to a newer system, nothing guarantees that my older devices will still be controllable with the new system (and yes, I have quite some older devices (nostalgia with old media formats)).  Plus: no one can advise me whether my investment in my wired multiroom setting will still operate or will have to be replaced.  Not even my Bose dealer who just shakes his head telling that even the dealers don't have correct access to Bose support anymore.  Great job, Senior VP of Marketing and Customer Support at Bose!

 

Sure, they try to follow trends and jumped on the wireless train (years too late).  But that may just be part of my (our?) problem: they don't improve their wired systems anymore and are not hi-tech on wireless systems yet.  I'm not conviced that their impeccable sound does the trick any longer to keep fooling customers into tripping into the Bose universe.  I, myself, reverted to Sonos Connect to stream my music through the LSV35, since Soundtouch was unable to stream uncompressed AIFF.  And if I look at the wireless integration of Sonos (I'm a tech guy), well, if it weren't of the Bose sound, I may hesitate again...

 

I agree with you on the Bose helpdesk.  Ours is now located in Barcelona (Spain), if I'm correct.  They usually amply appologise for my frustration, but they don't solve the problems.  Suggestions they make are what I already tried myself.  They even dare (as you witnessed yourself) to ask to keep in touch if I was able to solve the problem myself.  One guy even told me that my LSV35 was so old (4 years!) that it was superseded and would no longer get support of Bose, whereas his colleague told me the day before that a system update would come out soon...  Again, great support.

 

In the meantime, i've been looking for an alternative solution.  As I said earlier, I operate the Sony UHP-H1 from my iPhone, that at least allows me to keep all doors shut.  I also looked at swithching to other brands, but so far not much to see out there if I want a single remote AND not too much investment to solve my multiroom setup.  Also looked at Marmitek for remote repeaters, but that doesn't solve the multi remote issue. Switching to Sony was not advised by Sony helpdesk, because my TV wasn't a Brava set.  And so on...

 

Bottom line: I'm very glad to read your elaborate answer, but I'm less happy to see that you still need to switch your habits and in fact didn't find the perfect solution (if that exists).  Am I still fan of Bose?  Yes, for the sound.  No, for all the rest...

 

WHEN WILL BOSE LISTEN TO IT'S (HIGH END) CUSTOMERS ???

 

Regards,
Ben.

Jim George
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Re: Lifestyle 535 Series III

 
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Jim George
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Re: Lifestyle 535 Series III

Part one of two: Part ONE: Thank you for the reply. I am sorry that the posting you read was a cut and paste from a very rough incomplete draft by mistake. Below is what I meant to post. It was one of those horrific moments of hitting the enter key and noticing you just sent your personal email to your boss and the entire company type of things!! Sorry. Below has a lot more info on the 535 and the 650 models and at the end is the real reason to make the move from your 535 to a LS650. As to the reply about your house wire for sound: I have five Soundtouch receivers (all different models) in my house and just love them. Truly no wires (all driven by WIFI) and the best sound you can imagine! Need to try one to see what I mean and you will be buying a sound touch system for every room you spend any time at all in! As to your and others’ question: Did I fix my problems with my LS535 Unit: Yes, I "fixed" the issue: I upgraded to the new LS650 system! After countless discussions with Bose, it was apparent that my LS535 has been put out to pasture and no further updates or fixes will be forth coming. Knowing that, the writing was on the wall that any additional new device I might purchase to connect to my 535 was going to fall in line my Sony Blu-ray UHP-H1, that is – that is that the Bose LS535 would not work with it. As I only owned the 535 for less than a year, even thought it was at great cost, I just didn't want to live with it any longer. I buy “Stuff” to be happy – I was NOT happy! I always buy high quality “leading edge” items and plan on keeping them a long time. It was apparent I couldn't keep the 535 as my wife just will not tolerate a basket full of remote controls to watch TV. So, I took my lumps and bought the LS650. During my discussions with Bose and countless hours of on line research on the 535, I came to the same conclusions that Bose did on the LS535 – that is - it was not fixable. Why: 1. It's hardware (HDMI connectors and switching relays) were not capable of supporting the 4K UHD video signal band width. This was actually a "surprise" to Bose as after the shipped the units and folks started to complain, they originally believed a software fix is all that was needed. But their supplier (they moved their production and teck support “off shore”) installed substandard HDMI components and the Bose quality control team never caught it. They were “taken” as most manufactures are when their dream of lowering their manufacturing costs by moving production off shore gets the better of them. No matter what they did software wise – the 535 would never support 4K video signals. Other brands have been supporting 4K for over ten years yet, Bose’s one year old LS535 “top of the industry line” was incapable of it! 2. The design of the entire system to control attached device’s remote controls was hopelessly flawed. It relied on a continual stream of software updates adding new remote-control IR codes for every new device that any other brand happened to produce. Again, not fixable via software - it needed a totally new design. Just like the 4k UHD video format, well over ten years ago, the entire industry (other than Bose of course) had “solved” the consolidation of remote controls by dropping the IR code format entirely and adopting the new “CEC” method of controlling multiple devices from one source. “CEC stands for Consumer Electronics Control which allows HDMI devices to control each other. Furthermore, it allows user to operate multiple devices with just one remote control. It is possible to command and control up-to ten CEC-enabled devices, that are connected through HDMI.” The CEC HDMI connection format controls attached devices without relying on IR (infrared) codes. Instead, it uses one line or channel of the HDMI connector to support the “CEC” control functions for all attached devices. If you have had older Sony equipment you will be familiar with this feature. Sony had a single line (bravo link) that chain linked (connected) all its equipment to allow the master unit to control all the attached units to turn them on and off, switch inputs, and basically controlled everything needed without using separate remote controls. When connect vie the Sony Bavo Link: if you put a disk in a DVD player, it automatically turned on the TV, switched the inputs to the proper settings, turned on the amplifier, and the movie just started playing without any other action. This is now called “CEC” and is the now (ten years ago) new universal format. (After all, they were running out of remote control IR code groups. So, they HAD to do something!!) See this link if you want to know more: http://hdmicec.blogspot.com/2012/05/what-is-hdmi-cec-standard.html So, Bose made the financial decision to just “walk away” from the LS535 and start all over again - thus the LS650! The LS650 no longer even cares what your remote controls IR codes are “IF” it is a CEC complaint device – which everything built in the last ten years (other than Bose) is! Different that the 535 design, the 650’s remote control sends to the Bose console via radio signal (not IR) what button I press and it then sends the instruction to the device connected via the HDMI port that I have selected to do whatever I directed it to do. It does NOT (as the 535 does) send out (broadcast) an IR coded signal to all in hopes the proper unit “sees” it and makes the proper function work. This is NOT without glitches as the CEC convention of codes and functions has “Matured” over time and older units may not respond correctly if they have built in older formats. Not my issue as I always buy the latest and greatest! My current problem is that my cable box is NOT CEC compliant. So, I am fighting a duel format system in that my 4k player, DVD blue ray player, TV, and the Bose console are all CEC compliant and work happily with each other. By this I mean: If I walk up to my system (just like a 20-year-old Sony Bravo control system), hit door open on one of my DVD players, put in a DVD, press the door close, I can walk back to my chair, and by that time, the DVD player turns on, the TV turns on, the Bose console turns on and switches to the proper HMDI input, and the movie starts playing!! All good stuff!! The “BUT” comes in that my and most “rented” Cable TV box units are 20 years old in design and are Not CEC complaint. So, to get it to work, (it still doesn’t) the Bose console has to default back to the old IR code system. So, it sends out an IR blast hoping that the cable box “sees” it based again on a limited built in data base of IR codes (as the 535-unit had) trying to control the cable box and somehow trying to get the rest of the CEC controlled system (example the TV set) to turn on and switch to the cable box input. One issue (like the 535), is that the IR code data base is incomplete, ancient, and will be impossible to keep up to date. So far, my cable box will not turn on or off via the Bose remote but amazingly, once I manually turn on my cable box (yes, stand up, walk to the unit, and press the on button) the Bose remote will change the channels and does do most other functions. I am learning to live with that. (But my wife is still not happy!) Bose must have known of the conflict in CEC for older and newer equipment as they give you three options for the CEC function in the setup Unify program: CEC Default on, CEC Alternate ON, CEC Off. But no one at teck support can explain what the heck the differences are between them?? Their answer is to just: “Try each setting and let us know??” One big glitch with running a spilt system - that is using CEC on some devices and IR code control on others - is that “IF” any IR code that the Bose console sends out is somehow received (and recognized) by any other CEC device, then that device wakes up and sends its CEC signal back to the Bose console via the HMDI cable and overrides the IR system. The Bose console dutifully receiving a valid CEC command - switches from the IR controlled device (my cable box) and to the CEC device (my blue ray player). So, you get a ping pong effect of units switching trying to turn on. I “think” that the CEC Unify set up option of “CEC Alternate on” is supposed to help this out but, of curse not in my case. What I need is a CEC compliant cable box and I may be at heaven’s gate – Happy wife!! Another difference. The 650 is totally dependent on and revolves around the Soundtouch feature. It is no longer (like the 535) just a separate plug in component but a fully built in and integrated major function of the 650 unit. Once you have sound touch up and running – another set-up challenge – Bose teck support can remotely log on to your sound touch account and see what is going on with your Bose console. It is the sound touch system that actually helps the console work with WIFI and blue tooth connected devices. I am not so sure of my knowledge on this as I am just now trying to work with it. One thing I do know is that the Bose supplied group of Soundtouch Internet radio “channels” is a fixed set. I love the Whispering Springs Piano channel and Whispering Springs offers (almost every 12 minutes) that if you pay them $30 a year you will not have to listen to their begging for money (just like NPR) and will have seamless beautiful music! Ok, I logged on to their web site and paid. But I still get all commercials asking for $$. I called Whispering Springs Piano and they were amazed I was “listing” to them via my Bose Soundtouch system and said there was no way that I could change the “fixed” or packaged Soundtouch “stream”. $30 waisted!! As the Bose product production was moved “off shore” the component quality has taken a great nose dive. Most apparent is the Bose remote control itself. This is what you hold in your hand and what you “interface” with 99% of the time. Therefore, this is what you get the “feel” of the quality of the $4,000-dollar system you just paid for. It has cheap feel compared to the LS535 remote. My center upper circular control center button “squeaks” every time I press it. And it is one of those fingernails across the chalk board kind of noises! It is rubbing against the adjacent buttons. Teck support sent me a replacement remote but it has the same fault. So, I just guess this is the way they all are?? See Part Two (Apparently there is a 2K work limit??
Jim George
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Re: Lifestyle 535 Series III

Part Two Another change from the 535 to the 650 pertaining to the remote control is that you no longer get a visual conformation on the top line of the TV of what device (source) you are trying to switch to nor can look at the TV and scroll across to power up the device or do any of the supported functions. Nothing comes up on the TV screen. You have to go get your reading glasses and look down at the dim display panel on the remote to see what source you are choosing and then you have to be really really quick after selecting the source to fumble down to the “MORE” button to bring up possible additional commands such as “Device Power On”. If you are not really quick hitting the MORE button the remotes display goes blank. Most annoying is the Sound touch source. With the 535 unit, if you selected Soundtouch as your source your top six pre-sets came up on the TV and you could scroll down to select any one of them. Now – nothing comes up on the TV except a spinning pin wheel like you see when the system is updating. There is no way to get your presets to display any longer on the TV screen. The console and sub-woofer are also not as well made as the 535 or as and of my previous Bose systems – and I have had had almost every Bose system they have made! The console top cover is a shiny black curved piece of thin plastic. It is of a very soft plastic material easily scratched with just weakly dusting. And you will have to dust it as you really can’t put it down into your equipment cabinet as I did with my 535. You can’t stack anything on it (it is curved just for that reason) and you need it as high up as possible or you don’t get a good WIFI signal to it. And as they dropped the rear connection for a remote AM/FM radio antenna (as all previous units had) it relies only on the feeble internal antenna. So, you need to have it up and on top of your cabinet exposed to dust and as an electromagnetic device – it attracts dust like a magnet. Exposed as it is, the exterior shell will not ware well! The subwoofer is of the same soft easily stretchable material. Another 535/650 difference: The “wireless” sub-woofer and rear speakers. Not sure who was drinking what when the Bose design team was locked away in a hotel room when their investors said: “You guys go away and come up with a replacement for the failed 535 unit and don’t come out until you do!!” “Wireless” speakers sound like a GREAT marketing advantage!! Yes, you say?? By “marketing” I mean just like naming our health care system “The Affordable Health Care Act” as it is the exact opposite! The Wireless sub-woofer and rear speakers are anything but “WIRELESS”! They now require twice as many wires as they now each need a 120Volt service line to work - what house has 120V service in the attic if you plan to ceiling mount them or three spare 120V outlets next to where you are planning on mounting each of the speakers?? Then you have to deal with the huge black “brick” size power adapters that are impossible to hid and then you STILL have the same signal wires going to the speakers! Well, that shows you the power of “Marketing”. If you can’t fix it – rename it something it isn’t and they will buy it!! The rear speaker and sub-woofer connections of the past was a good solid tried and true direct wire system and was not broken! Well, it is broken now! The 650 system speakers now depend on a very feeble radio frequency system prone to interference (as everything else in your home is competing on the same radio system: aka: your wireless phone, your baby monitor, your remote weather sensors, your garage door opener, etc) to work!! Just have the wife run the vacuum cleaner in the next room and you get no sub or rear speakers! Not to mention that 80%+ of the folks out there, me included, are actually upgrading from a “wired” system and the “wires” are already in place and just sitting there just waiting to be “hook-up”. Ok, you say, having the ability to use the new “Wireless” system is an advantage if the old “hard wired” wires are NOT already in place. But if they are, even though you just paid $4,000 for the LS650 – they DO NOT provide in the box the two-dollar connector that would allow you to connect the wires directly to the console. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING??? The new 650’s even smaller speakers really do sound as good as the 535’s larger versions. The 535 speakers were small enough for me and I would assume for anyone else but the new 650 speakers are half the size and STILL sound as good. Not better mind you - but as good! But again, that is marketing as actually, the 650 speakers are three times the size of the 535 speakers if you include the required “Wireless Power Brick” that goes with them!! There was no need to change the way the speakers were connected to the console as 50% of the online complaints on the 650 are due to the “Wireless” speaker system. Please Bose, send me the $2 adapter so I can connect the sub-woofer and the remote speakers directly to my console and throw in the trash the so-called “Wireless” bricks that just don’t work! Another cost saving difference moving from the 535 to the 650 model is that you lose half of the rear connectors. You have fewer options to connect devices and as I mentioned, no external antenna connection. You also can’t use the front USB connector to go on line using a USB thumb drive to get the latest software update from Bose. You have to rely on its “auto” checking via WIFI if you need an update. You can’t do it manually and the WIFI down load and update took over an hour last time it did it. Bose does ship with the 650 unit an optical cable?? The ONLY reason for the optical cable with the 535 unit was that if you wanted to watch a 4K movie you had to plug the 4k player directly into the TV bypassing the Bose console – so to then get the audio back from the TV to the Bose system you needed to relay it via the optical cable. Ok all good and well for that “work around” but as the 650 does support 4k - why would anyone by pass the Bose console and plug their 4k player directly into the TV?? So, with the 650, there really isn’t any need for an optical cable. But they include the optical cable, unfortunately, it is so short that I can’t imagine any set up that this cable would reach the TV’s optical plug in?? The Adaptec speaker volume auto balancing feature also took a cost cutting hit. The 535 comes with a headphone look alike device you place on you head that has a separate microphone positioned over each of your ears. The Adaptec program then senses the volume of each of the five speakers at your left and your right ears individually and adjusts all five speakers so you get the perfect balance. The Adaptec device shipped with the 650 unit is just a simple hair band with a single microphone mounted cheaply on the top of your head. No more “right ear-left ear” balance?? One more issue with moving Bose “Off Shore”. Teck support is now from the Philippines and I know more about the 650 then they do. Apparently, when you call teck support, you get a “level one” guy. That is the new guy that can only help you with the basic set up issues. But, if you have any issue at all, you need to move up to the second level of support. Unfortunately, most “issues” with the 650 are third level support issues and you basically learn and work them out between you both! The standard answer is of course: Wait till the next software update and MAYBE they will address that issue?? WHO ARE THEY??? I want to talk to “THEY” – PLEASE!!!! The old Axum still stands: “You pay peanuts - you get ???!” What was "right" with the 535/650 as with all Bose systems - was the sound! It sounds great! Bose is ALL ABOUT the SOUND!! If you want the most fantastic sound on the planet – then you have no other option than to go BOSE. I live and (could die) by Bose as I am a pilot, my Bose head phones cancels out all the cockpit noise and makes the slurred radio instructions from Air traffic control intelligible! Nothing on the planet sounds as clear and as good as Bose system – any Bose system. I have so many Bose products in my life that if it makes a noise – it has BOSE on the label!! Actually, my attic is full of past Bose “stuff.” Anyone need a pair of 901s??? In my living room, when I am watching a 4K movie and listening to the crisp clear quality of the sound – I just smile!! Yes, it is well worth the software bugs and the frustration of trying to get someone on the phone that actually knows what his is talking abort!! There is huge design difference between the 535 and the 650: The 535 was hard wired to be what all that it could be. To change any functions or grow it would have required hard ware modifications. This is the real reason Bose just walked away from it. It was truly old 10-year-old technology. The 650 is totally different. It is software driven not hardware limited. Best to explain it this way: The 535 and all previous Bose consoles models were like your old standard Bell Telephone from 20 years ago. It was what it was and it was all that it could be – a simple phone! The 650 is like you iPhone – it can morph into anything the software designers wish! And from the little I could glean from talking to anybody that may know more than I do – Bose has a host of new features on the way for the 650 via software updates. Just like the updates your iPhone gets year to year - good free stuff coming. And you all know how we like good free stuff!! Bottom line: For the rest of the 535 owners out there: You only option is to change up the LS650. Yes, it will hurt, but it is worth it. (Sort of like child birth – you are pregnant with the 535 unit – the pain of child birth of the 650 unit is you only option for a contented life!) You can’t keep your legs crossed – it just doesn’t work like that! Jim George