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stephaniebertho
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Jun 14, 2009

2 L1's model II 4ft high stage

Next month we are doing a benefit for Toys for Tots. The stage is 4 ft high and set in the corner of a good size hall. Holds about 200-225 people including a 20x40 dance floor in front of the stage. There will be a row of tables on the left of the dance floor. Most of the people will be to the right (and far right) of us. The whole floor is hardwood. I was thinking to place the two L1's, with 2 b1's each, on the floor in front of the stage, right in front of the band. Then use a couple of powered monitors on stage. I use a mixer, so I can connect those to two aux out. I remember reading somewhere on the Forum how the sound will sail right over people if there's a high stage. Am I on the right track? I won't have time to experiment any time. We play country music. Acoustic lead, rhythm, drums and bass. Have been using the Bose system for about 5 months now and I'm still amazed at not having big feedback problems considering how high the mic is set sometimes to accommodate people who have no volume when they sing. We do open mic once a week.
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ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

Re: 2 L1's model II 4ft high stage

Hi Stephanie,

First - Good for you! (doing the benefit for Toys for Tots).


quote:
Originally posted by Stephanie Bertholee:
Next month we are doing a benefit for Toys for Tots. The stage is 4 ft high and set in the corner of a good size hall.

Too bad it's so high.

You are right about the sound sailing over people's heads. Most people will hear it if they are within the vertical range of the Cylindrical Radiator®, but you can improve the situation if you tilt the L1®s down a bit. I use door stoppers to do this because typically, I rarely have to elevate back of the L1®'s more than an inch or two at the most. It would be sturdier if you brought a couple of 30" x 30" pieces of light plywood. Elevate the back end of each one so the incline is down toward the audience, and then put Model II Power Stand on top of that.
quote:

Holds about 200-225 people including a 20x40 dance floor in front of the stage. There will be a row of tables on the left of the dance floor. Most of the people will be to the right (and far right) of us. The whole floor is hardwood. I was thinking to place the two L1's, with 2 b1's each, on the floor in front of the stage, right in front of the band. Then use a couple of powered monitors on stage. I use a mixer, so I can connect those to two aux out.

This should work fine, but after you've gone to all the work to figure out your sound with the Model II's behind you, it seems a shame to give that up for this show.
quote:


I remember reading somewhere on the Forum how the sound will sail right over people if there's a high stage.

Yes, but you can work around that (see above).
quote:


Am I on the right track? I won't have time to experiment any time. We play country music. Acoustic lead, rhythm, drums and bass. Have been using the Bose system for about 5 months now and I'm still amazed at not having big feedback problems considering how high the mic is set sometimes to accommodate people who have no volume when they sing. We do open mic once a week.


This sounds like a really fun event. It should be fun for you too, and so that's why I'm suggesting that you keep doing what you do for your weekly events. Just elevate the back ends of the Power Stands and this should give you the downward coverage to project the sound where the people will be.
DrumrPete
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May 16, 2017

Re: 2 L1's model II 4ft high stage

quote:
I was thinking to place the two L1's, with 2 b1's each, on the floor in front of the stage, right in front of the band. Then use a couple of powered monitors on stage.

Hi S.B.,

I'm with ST, keep the L1s where you like them and are used to them, behind the band.
Tilting them should work very well.

The only additional comments I would offer is to position mic stands at the very front of the stage.
Being as there would be no floor monitors that should work fine.
This way the L1s won't have to be too far back on the stage.
If you get them too far back, tilting them will send too much of the sound into the stage floor.

That is how I have worked with our city's outdoor bandstand on a number of occasions.
The L1s were no more than 7-8' back from the front edge of the stage.
I use a couple of B1 covers, folded flat and stacked to lift the rear of the L1.

Here is a pic of our bandstand at a solo performance.
You can see the L1 isn't tilted all that much, and it was loud and clear out front.
(The L1 on the left was not in use.)
stephaniebertho
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Jun 14, 2009

Re: 2 L1's model II 4ft high stage

I'm glad to hear that this can be worked out without powered monitors. The stage is about 8-9 feet deep and the length is about the same as what we're used to on our weekly gigs. So I can set up the same as usual with the only difference to tilt the towers about 2". My concern is, is there a chance they fall forward? My other concern is will the music be heard well on the (far) right hand side. Standing on stage, which is in a corner, facing the audience, on the left is the wall about 6 feet away, on the right there's a wall about 8 feet away from the stage. This wall is about 8-9 feet long. (same as the stage is deep) In front of the stage on the left will be a row of tables, then the dance floor and to the right of the dance floor more tables. People on the right will be 30 feet away and further from the one L1. Am I going to hear "I can't hear the music" all night? I may be able to turn up a bit, but I don't have a lot of time to experiment to see how far I can go before I get feedback. Oh the challenges we face!
sarahjones
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May 10, 2009

Re: 2 L1's model II 4ft high stage

Hi Stephanie,

I also have found tilting the L1 to be fairly simple and to produce really good results. On my Billy No-Mates Tour last month we had a couple of stages of similar height. I'll attach a photo of one of them below. The L1 is only tilted by about an inch or so.

Best wishes,
Sarah
Smile
stephaniebertho
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Jun 14, 2009

Re: 2 L1's model II 4ft high stage

Thanks DrumrPete and Sarah for your input and the photo's. They gave me a good idea of what to do.
stephaniebertho
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Jun 14, 2009

Re: 2 L1's model II 4ft high stage

The L1's II performed great during our Toys for Tots Fundraiser. We had 2 other bands besides Midnight Blue and one of them did open mic as did we. In other words a lot of different singing voices that needed to sound good. I used the two L1's with 2 B1's each and after a lot of thinking I decided to use them as mains and have powered monitors on stage. One of the reasons was that the stage is not very big and it turned out to be the right decision because that stage got rather crowded with a 5 piece band and guest singers. At times there would have been 2 people in front of the L1's if the L1's would have been on stage. The important thing is that the sound was great and no feedback. One question I have though. The towers were emitting a sizzling, crackling noise much louder than at my regular location, which is downstairs in the same building. When I turned the trim to the half way point (12 o'clock) the noise got noticeably louder and that's when I turned it down to 11 o'clock which is the usual level. The master output on the Mackie board was also set at the usual level(at unity gain). Even at the 11 o'clock setting the noise was louder than normal. Is it harmful to the speakers and what causes this sizzling crackling noise. I never heard this when I used a conventional system at the same location.
Dan_Cornett
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Jun 6, 2005

Re: 2 L1's model II 4ft high stage

Hi, Stephanie B. -- I suspect the noise was due to the re-routing of the cables with the alternative setup ... particularly on any unbalanced connections (e.g.: 1/4").

The noise should not cause any harm to the L1's -- just to the listeners' satisfaction!

Try removing input connections one at a time to see if just one input is related to the noise. If it is just one input, try swapping that cable with another one ... if the noise "follows" the cable, then either the cable is bad -- or the instrument it is connected to has a battery which needs replacing -- or the cable is running past something that is picking up the noise (and it doesn't route that same way with the previous setup).

It could also be noise being picked up on the cables between the mixer and the L1 ... again, try swapping cables and moving them away from any kind of "wall wart" (power adapter).

Another possibility: Cell phone turned on by someone near the mixer or an instrument -- even if not in use, but still on, can affect particularly any wireless connections and/or mixer.
stephaniebertho
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Jun 14, 2009

Re: 2 L1's model II 4ft high stage

Hi Dan. Thanks for your input. Do I understand this correctly that it could be one of the cables that connect to the mixer? At that time I had just three mikes connected and only one had a different (brand new) cable than what I use downstairs due to the longer distance to the board. I tried to keep mic and instrument cables away from power cables and not to have them run parallel, but sometimes it can't be helped. The only unbalanced cables I used were from the monitors to the board. Anyway, I appreciate your help and will keep that in mind if it happens again.