cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
onemanband
Member
  • 0
  • 187
  • 0
Registered since

Jun 16, 2005

7 people - 3 L1s 6 B1s, a T1 and an A1

It seems that there are very few 2 bands with the same configuration of musicians and speakers.

I am now the prod owner of 3 L1 m2, along with 6 B1, a T1 and a Packlite (A1). This is the best way I can think if to set up the band to take advantage of the Bose equipment that I own.

http://toonz.ca/sketcher/showBand.aspx?SketchID=5026


Do I have the Bose concept right? Or is there a way to improve this setup?

Thanks!
13 REPLIES 13
ST - Pro
Professional Legend
  • 1430
  • 48121
  • 3
Registered since

May 11, 2020

Re: 7 people - 3 L1s 6 B1s, a T1 and an A1

Hi OneManBand,

Thanks for using The Sketcher! Here is your Sketch.

This is just a quick note to send you a link to your Sketch in case you want to review it, edit it, or share it with others.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Legend (as we normaly use it):
L1® Model II
T1 ToneMatch® audio engine
Orange numbers are Systems and Inputs using those Systems.
Blue filled numbers are Channel connections to/from the T1 ToneMatch® audio engine.
Green numbers are for general notes about the Sketch and connections to non-Bose gear.

There were no notes with this Sketch.

Ideas coming soon....
ST - Pro
Professional Legend
  • 1430
  • 48121
  • 3
Registered since

May 11, 2020

Re: 7 people - 3 L1s 6 B1s, a T1 and an A1

Hi OneManBand,

One of the key principles/recommendations with a multiple L1® setup for a band is that each sound source is heard through only one L1® - the closest one.

This allows you to hear Localization - a huge advantage and distinguishing feature of the L1® System.

Applying that idea could look like this.

-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Legend:
L1® Model II
T1 ToneMatch® audio engine
Orange numbers are Systems and Inputs using those Systems.
Blue filled numbers are Channel connections to/from the T1 ToneMatch® audio engine.
Green numbers are for general notes about the Sketch and connections to non-Bose gear.
ery input is heard through a single L1®, the closest one.
These inputs to the mixer are panned hard Left
Kick Drum***
(this could be routed differently through the T1® using the KickGate® but I will describe that in another post)
Drum overhead
Drum overhead
Bass guitar
Mixer Left output goes to

These inputs to the mixer are panned hard right
Sax microphone
Cello pickup

Mixer Right output goes to

T1® is used for
Vocalist
Guitar
Keyboard

T1® output goes to
ST - Pro
Professional Legend
  • 1430
  • 48121
  • 3
Registered since

May 11, 2020

Re: 7 people - 3 L1s 6 B1s, a T1 and an A1

Here is the same Sketch with the same connections.

I have shown your stage as three separate zones (separate colours), and each zone is supported by an L1®.

I have shown the mixer split in two because that's basically how we are using it.
- The Left side is used for and
- The Right side is used for


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Legend:
L1® Model II
T1 ToneMatch® audio engine
Orange numbers are Systems and Inputs using those Systems.
Blue filled numbers are Channel connections to/from the T1 ToneMatch® audio engine.
Green numbers are for general notes about the Sketch and connections to non-Bose gear.

More coming about the KickGate® in a few minutes.
onemanband
Member
  • 0
  • 187
  • 0
Registered since

Jun 16, 2005

Re: 7 people - 3 L1s 6 B1s, a T1 and an A1

Thanks! Is there any reason to think about the frequency range of the instruments in each system? Does it make a difference if there are multiple items in the same range in one system. An example would be two male vocalists. Is it better to put them in two systems (in my setup) or combine them in one?
ST - Pro
Professional Legend
  • 1430
  • 48121
  • 3
Registered since

May 11, 2020

Re: 7 people - 3 L1s 6 B1s, a T1 and an A1

Hi OneManBand,

Here is how you could handle the Kick Drum so that you can hear it through the T1® and take advantage of the KickGate® effect.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Legend:
L1® Model II
T1 ToneMatch® audio engine
Orange numbers are Systems and Inputs using those Systems.
Blue filled numbers are Channel connections to/from the T1 ToneMatch® audio engine.
Green numbers are for general notes about the Sketch and connections to non-Bose gear.

Kick Drum to T1® input Channel 3.
- Use the KickGate® effect
- Send the output of Channel 3 to the T1® Aux output (only)
? see Using T1® Aux to send a signal to a a separate L1®

T1® Aux Output to Mixer channel 1 panned hard Left

Mixer Left Output to L1®

Unrelated to the Kick Drum, we now have the Keyboard running to T1® Channel 4/5 (leaving T1® Channel 3 available for the Kick Drum microphone).
ST - Pro
Professional Legend
  • 1430
  • 48121
  • 3
Registered since

May 11, 2020

Re: 7 people - 3 L1s 6 B1s, a T1 and an A1

Hi OneMandBand,

quote:
Originally posted by OneManBand:
Thanks! Is there any reason to think about the frequency range of the instruments in each system? Does it make a difference if there are multiple items in the same range in one system. An example would be two male vocalists. Is it better to put them in two systems (in my setup) or combine them in one?


Great question.

I thought about this when I was doing the Sketch. I might consider trying to separate the Electric Guitar from the Keyboards if there was a lot of overlap in the frequencies or the arrangements. You might do well to have the Keyboardist avoid the middle of the keyboard.

More about this idea in these notes:
Playing better with the L1® System

Back to your question about vocals.

I always put lead vocals into a separate L1®: Separate that is from backing vocals.

I checked in your Sketch and saw only one vocalist. If there are two, then yes I would try to put them through separate systems.

This will help the audience experience localization AND it will help with monitoring.

Does that help?
onemanband
Member
  • 0
  • 187
  • 0
Registered since

Jun 16, 2005

Re: 7 people - 3 L1s 6 B1s, a T1 and an A1

So there are two "enhancements". One is that each instrument should come out of only one L1 - and it should be the closest to them. And two, that it is good to separate similar frequencies to distinct units. That being said, I suppose I should rearrange my stage to separate the sax and violin and the guitar and keys. However, that goes against everything I have ever done. The rhythm was always together and the lead were always together.
Also, I was kind of thinking that the lead instrument (vocals, sax, violin) should come from the middle L1. Does that make a difference?
ST - Pro
Professional Legend
  • 1430
  • 48121
  • 3
Registered since

May 11, 2020

Re: 7 people - 3 L1s 6 B1s, a T1 and an A1

Hi OneManBand,



quote:
Originally posted by OneManBand:
So there are two "enhancements". One is that each instrument should come out of only one L1 - and it should be the closest to them. And two, that it is good to separate similar frequencies to distinct units.


Yes - you've got those two enhancements down.
quote:


That being said, I suppose I should rearrange my stage to separate the sax and violin and the guitar and keys.


Certainly worth considering. When you check out
the videos here: Playing better with the L1® System you can hear Cliff Goodwin and Ken-at-Bose talking about arranging in space. That is taking localization into account as you think about your stage layout and your musical arrangements.

quote:


However, that goes against everything I have ever done. The rhythm was always together and the lead were always together.
Also, I was kind of thinking that the lead instrument (vocals, sax, violin) should come from the middle L1. Does that make a difference?


Interesting thought. I might consider putting vocal(s) in the middle and sax on one side and violin on the other. But without seeing how your band members interact musically and physically - that's hard to know.

In my band we have two of us who basically front the show. We alternate lead vocals and backup, lead guitars and backup, and we have a lot of interplay in those roles as we do it. We always play through separate L1®s. Our Bassist also sings and he plays through his own L1® as well. If we add other lead instruments in the vocal range (violin, sax) as we have on occasion - we always put those in separate systems (separate from the vocals) unless it is someone sitting in for a song or two and we don't want to rearrange everything around that special event. Then one of us (main performers) will step back and let the guest take one of the front positions.
ST - Pro
Professional Legend
  • 1430
  • 48121
  • 3
Registered since

May 11, 2020

Re: 7 people - 3 L1s 6 B1s, a T1 and an A1

Hi OneManBand,

Here are a few stage layouts that I use. That's me at the left side of the Sketches.

ST Basic Band Setup (4 piece)


-- click image to make changes to the live version --


ST Basic Band set up with a couple of guests (Violin and Sax) sitting in for a couple of songs


-- click image to make changes to the live version --



ST Band with Brass/String section version 1.


-- click image to make changes to the live version --



ST Band with Brass/String section version 2


-- click image to make changes to the live version --

Whether I use version 1 or version 2 depends on the role that the Sax/Violin/Trumpet are taking in the arrangements - and the Bassist's and Drummer's need to be together. (some do and some don't)