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May 11, 2020

Re: Advice on Microphone with Bose L1 Model 2 & T4S Tonematch Mixer

Hi again Gideon,

Here's why I've made the (no cost) suggestions above.

The Shure Beta 58A has a supercardioid polar pattern.

The Shure SM58 has a cardioid polar pattern.

The AKG C1000S lets you choose between a supercardioid or cardioid polar patterns.

You may discover the wider cardioid polar pattern of the Shure SM58 gives you more flexibility with respect to the angle at which you approach the microphone.  Switching between the two microphones will give you a sense of the how the different polar patterns work.  For the sake of this comparison it might be easier to use two T4S channels at the same time.

Bypassing the ToneMatch Preset will disable the T1 compensation for the proximity effect.

Please tell us what you hear.

ST

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May 10, 2018

Re: Advice on Microphone with Bose L1 Model 2 & T4S Tonematch Mixer

I concur with ST's suggestions that trying the microphones you have with different settings on the Tonematch and working on mic technique may work for you without having to spend any more money.  🙂

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Re: Advice on Microphone with Bose L1 Model 2 & T4S Tonematch Mixer

Hi Gideon,

Reading through your post I see a couple of issues that may be contributing more to your problem than the particular mic you are using.

I know you said midi accordion, but I am assuming there is also acoustic sound from the accordion. If I am wrong my assumption will have bearing on my opinion stated below.

Playing the accordion while singing and maintaining access to the mic while having room to play seems to be one obstacle. The other is trying to utilize the Model II behind you as it was designed for, with the mic too far away.

If the mic is too far away, the accordion will also be picked up by the mic and being between you and the mic you may never get enough vocal to overcome the volume of the accordion.

If you are placing the L1 Model II behind you, as you turn up the mic channel you increase the chance for feedback. If you have the L1 in front of you, how are you monitoring your vocal?

"Eating the mic" is the recommended way of utilizing the L1 behind the performer. There is 20 db of volume in the 2 inches directly in front of the mic. If you are 4 inches away, you are sacrificing much more. When I first started using the L1 it was a difficult transition from how I had "worked" the mic with previous equipment. It takes some getting used to, but for me it was worth the effort in the long run.  

I have, and sometimes use, various different mics. My collection includes a pair of AKG C1000's, a Neumann KMS 105, Shure SM 57 and 58, an Audix OM5, Various EV dynamic mics, and a miscellaneous handful of mics I used back in the 70's searching for the perfect guitar mic. My go-to mic until just recently has been an EV ND 767 purchased for $99. I just changed over to an EV ND 96 that I bought on sale for $159.

My point being, a mic can be a very personal choice, and spending more money does not necessarily mean it will solve the problem. I have hundreds of dollars tied up in mics I rarely, if ever, use. 

The mic you are currently using is a quality mic and assuming it is in good working order, the problem you are trying to solve will not likely be remedied with a new stand mounted mic. While there are many mics that sound great from a distance of 3, 4, 5 inches or more, in a live performance, at a given stage volume, the chance for feedback is raised exponentially with each inch of increased distance between you and the mic. It matters not, what brand, model, dynamic, or condenser.  

I think ST made a good suggestion. If you are going to buy something new, look into headworn, cardioid or supercardiod mics. That way you can isolate your vocal from your instrument, and keep the L1 behind you for good monitoring. Head worn mics also require some getting used to.

If you are unfamiliar with how to properly set the gain for your mic on the T4, I suggest you read up on that just to make sure you are starting at the optimal level.

Please feel free to comment or correct me if I have made incorrect assumptions.

O..

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Re: Advice on Microphone with Bose L1 Model 2 & T4S Tonematch Mixer

Another option is to do what my band does with an L1s to fight feedback.

We place it slightly in front of the microphone line and to one side with B2 sub on the far side.  I sit on the opposite side of the stage from the PA and can monitor the group fine with the amount of side wash I hear.

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Aug 26, 2018

Re: Advice on Microphone with Bose L1 Model 2 & T4S Tonematch Mixer

Hi,yes i will next week also try my SM58 compared to the Beta,i now think perhaps it is a case of getting completely used to the Bose system i have compared to my last PA

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Re: Advice on Microphone with Bose L1 Model 2 & T4S Tonematch Mixer

Chet posted:

Oh, sorry.  More information.

The C1000S doesn't have the emphasized proximity response that requires that one "eat" a Shure SM58 (and others) in order to get the volume and punch required.

The C1000S can be configured with a highly feedback-resistant supercardioid pattern.  It responds with a much flatter, honest frequency response even when you're further away from the microphone. 

As it's a condenser microphone, it responds better to vocal nuances and characteristics that the larger moving mass in dynamic microphones tend to smother.  This can be bad or good depending on how pleasing the person's natural voice sounds.  🙂

And GAK, now only costs about $60 more than an SM58...

Hi Chet

 Following our earlier messages i have decided on the mic you recommended an AKG C1000s the mic you use & have used for many years after trying all the other mikes & preferring this one.

I have been trying to learn more about the mike,unfortunately me being me i am somewhat confused.

As you know i am using the Shure Beta 58a,i plug it into my T4s Bose tone match mixer.

This is listed in the menu of the T4s

With the AKG the C1000s is NOT ,so how do i PROGRAMME THIS MICROPHONE into the T4s in simple terms?

As you will well know a good number of mics are listed

 

Yes i do understand this mic is a condenser mic & the button on the T4s will need to be used to enable the mic.

The only other channel i use is channel 2,my Tyros 5 is plugged into that & as already mentioned in the past i play midi Accordion with vocals in channel one.

Regarding the C1000s

Equipped with two selectable pick up patterns CARDIOID & hyper CARDIOID,I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THESE MEAN & HOW I SHOULD USE THEM??

Has 2 gain & 3 frequency settings,WHAT DO THESE MEAN ??

PB 1000 presence boost adaptor boosts the sensitivity of the mic,how do i use this & when do i know how & when to use it ??

It seems this mic comes with 2 different gadgets

One gadget to alter the polar pattern (whatever that means) ?

The other gadget a presence boost adaptor.

Before getting this mic i need to understand in very simple terms how i would use it to its best advantage ?

I have NO IDEA how to use this mike & the gadgets that come with it,i hope you can advise me in simple terms the best way you can.

Many thanks once again

          Gideon

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Re: Advice on Microphone with Bose L1 Model 2 & T4S Tonematch Mixer

I'd try running the C1000 with NO T4s microphone setting, run it flat.  That's what I did when I used an L1M2 with older Tonematch. Then you could just try running through some of the other settings until you find one you like.

Maybe someone can weigh in here who has used an AKG C1000 with a Bose mixer.

As for the gadgets - I believe that the long plastic "cap" that changes polar pattern from Cardioid to Supercardioid may already be placed on the microphone capsule when the mic is delivered.  If not, try the mic without it and then if still experiencing problems with feedback, try putting it on the capsule.

A Supercardioid polar pattern allows the microphone to better reject sound coming in the from the sides or behind the mic and thus reject feedback better than a Cardioid pattern.  Supercardioid is what I use but as I said, I always perform sitting down right in front of the microphone and have years of experience making sure my mouth is directly in front of the mic while I'm singing.

As for the other settings, I left everything the way it came from the factory.

There is a complete and clear discussion of the "presence booster" (I'd say don't use it!) and the other controls in the user guide.  (English begins page 16).

https://www.akg.com/on/demandw...KG_C1000S_Manual.pdf

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Re: Advice on Microphone with Bose L1 Model 2 & T4S Tonematch Mixer

Thank you Chet,much appreciated

          Gideon