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Sep 27, 2015

Behringer XR18 with Bose L1 Model II

I want to run a Behringer XR18 mixer through my Bose L1 Model II. Will I have better gain before feedback plugging the mixer output into the Analog input on the L1 base or by plugging the mixer into my T1 Tonematch (and, of course, connecting the Tonematch via its digital cable to the L1)?

If I use the Tonematch, which preset would be best? I'm using a mix of SM58 and Shure condenser mics like the PG1.

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May 10, 2018

Re: Behringer XR18 with Bose L1 Model II

There are "fewer moving parts" if you plug the XR18 directly into the Analog input of the L1M2.

Another option might be to route the SM58s (into one bus) from the XR18 to one channel of the Tonematch with the SM58 preset, the other mics (on another bus) to another channel in the Tonematch (with an appropriate preset) and finally route all other instruments directly into the analog input on a 3rd Bus.

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May 11, 2020

Re: Behringer XR18 with Bose L1 Model II

Hi, Bob Midden,

Bob Midden posted:

I want to run a Behringer XR18 mixer through my Bose L1 Model II. Will I have better gain before feedback plugging the mixer output into the Analog input on the L1 base or by plugging the mixer into my T1 Tonematch (and, of course, connecting the Tonematch via its digital cable to the L1)?

Connecting the Behringer XR18 to the the T1 won't give you better gain-before-feedback but it may be simpler to do it anyway.

Options: 

Behringer XR18 to T1 to L1

  • Connect XR18 left and right outputs to T1 channels 4/5
    • Note: The inputs 4/5 are balanced
  • Set T1 channel 4 ToneMatch Preset to Vocal Mics / Handheld Mics
  • Set T1 channel 4 input trim so you have solid green with occasional flickers of yellow. If the trim light is red - turn it down


OR

If I use the Tonematch, which preset would be best? I'm using a mix of SM58 and Shure condenser mics like the PG1.

On the Behringer XR18

  • Shure SM58 microphones - pan them hard left
  • Other microphones - pan them hard right
  • Connect XR18 left output to T1 channels 1
  • Connect XR18 right output to T1 channels 2
  • Set T1 channel 1 ToneMatch Preset to Vocal Mics / Shure SM58
  • Set T1 channel 2 ToneMatch Preset to Vocal Mics / Handheld mics
  • Set T1 channel 1 & 2 inputs trim so you have solid green with occasional flickers of yellow. If the trim light is red - turn it down


Behringer XR18 to L1 analog input

  • XR18 - Mix down to a single mono output
  • Connect XR18 mono output to L1 Model II Analog Input
    • Connection at the L1 end is balanced
      • DO NOT CONNECT a stereo signal to the L1


ST

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Re: Behringer XR18 with Bose L1 Model II

Just a bit of FYI:

Digital mixers like the XR18 (and my Touchmix 16) allow one to route channels not just to left and right but and/OR to one of 6 other output buses.

Thus my suggestion to;

Route the SM58 Vocal mics to one output bus to TM with SM58 setting.

Route the Condenser Vocal mics to another output bus to TM with whatever vocal mic setting works well.

Then the TM to the digital input on L1.

Route any other instruments to another bus or you could just route pan center to regular Left and Right outputs to Aux input on Bose - OR if it's a T4 or T8 -- to another channel on the tonematch run flat.

Use those extra buses...

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Dec 26, 2019

Re: Behringer XR18 with Bose L1 Model II

Quick question: why do you want to include the T4 at all?  Just another point for troubleshooting and the XR18 with output into the analog input should do everything you need.

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Re: Behringer XR18 with Bose L1 Model II

Chet posted:

There are "fewer moving parts" if you plug the XR18 directly into the Analog input of the L1M2.

Another option might be to route the SM58s (into one bus) from the XR18 to one channel of the Tonematch with the SM58 preset, the other mics (on another bus) to another channel in the Tonematch (with an appropriate preset) and finally route all other instruments directly into the analog input on a 3rd Bus.

Thanks very much for this advice. So, it sounds as if it's possible to use the T1 digital input and the analog input at the same time. Is that true? If so, how do I adjust the relative levels of those two inputs? Will the gain on the L1 base affect the analog input and perhaps the output gain knob on the T1 will determine the level that sends to the L1 base?

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Re: Behringer XR18 with Bose L1 Model II

RV posted:

Quick question: why do you want to include the T4 at all?  Just another point for troubleshooting and the XR18 with output into the analog input should do everything you need.

I don't know enough about how the T4 operates and whether it is reducing feedback. If it is only functioning as a mixer with EQ presets for some mics and guitars with the addition of sound processing such as reverb, compression, and gate then, indeed, I probably have little advantage with it since the XR18 has all of those functions.

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Re: Behringer XR18 with Bose L1 Model II

I use two L1M2s, one with B1, the other with B2 bass.  We have 5 vocals, bass guitar, electric guitar, keys, and occasionally add a percussionist, so neither T4 or T8 Tone Match would suffice for the number of channels needed, so our purchases eliminated that option.

The XR18 has dozens of effects to choose from, and excellent EQ and gain controls for each channel.

Not to discourage the use of the Tone Match mixers (I have zero experience with them), just that the XR18 meets all of my needs, where the Tone Match did not.

 

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Re: Behringer XR18 with Bose L1 Model II

RV posted:

I use two L1M2s, one with B1, the other with B2 bass.  We have 5 vocals, bass guitar, electric guitar, keys, and occasionally add a percussionist, so neither T4 or T8 Tone Match would suffice for the number of channels needed, so our purchases eliminated that option.

The XR18 has dozens of effects to choose from, and excellent EQ and gain controls for each channel.

Not to discourage the use of the Tone Match mixers (I have zero experience with them), just that the XR18 meets all of my needs, where the Tone Match did not.

 

Thanks very much for this information. I'm using microphones for acoustic instruments in addition to vocals and sometimes struggle to achieve sufficient loudness without feedback and have wondered if it's due to use of an external monitor rather than the T4. So, I welcome advice about how to reduce feedback with an L1M2 and external mixer like the XR18. Where do you place the L1s relative to musicians? I presume your sound levels are adequate.

I noticed that you may only use microphones for vocals and if those are dynamic mics, feedback may not be as much of a problem. I'm using condenser mics because the musicians find it difficult to get their acoustic instruments close enough to a dynamic mic and the condenser mics don't have the proximity effect of dynamic mics. HOWEVER, this does create a greater challenge for feedback.

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Re: Behringer XR18 with Bose L1 Model II

Hi Bob Midden,

Bob Midden posted:

Thanks very much for this information. I'm using microphones for acoustic instruments in addition to vocals and sometimes struggle to achieve sufficient loudness without feedback and have wondered if it's due to use of an external monitor rather than the T4.

You lower your gain-before-feedback when:

  • When you add loudspeakers (e.g., monitors) to a system, 
  • As you add microphones to a system

So, I welcome advice about how to reduce feedback with an L1M2 and external mixer like the XR18. Where do you place the L1s relative to musicians? I presume your sound levels are adequate.

Start with this article: Microphone Feedback

Although there are some tips in the article that refer to ToneMatch mixers, the principles can be applied to similar features in the Behringer XR18.

I noticed that you may only use microphones for vocals and if those are dynamic mics, feedback may not be as much of a problem. I'm using condenser mics because the musicians find it difficult to get their acoustic instruments close enough to a dynamic mic and the condenser mics don't have the proximity effect of dynamic mics. HOWEVER, this does create a greater challenge for feedback.

Condenser microphones are not always more prone to feedback. There are lots of characteristics of a microphone, like polar pattern, that make a big difference.

If you want to get into deeper detail, please tell us about all the inputs you have so we know how many microphones you are using and how you are using them. For example:

  • Vocal mic - Shure SM58 (Cardioid)
  • Vocal mic - Shure Beta 87A (Supercardioid)
  • Vocal mic - AKG C535EB (Cardioid)
  • Instrument mic (acoustic guitar) on a mic stand - Shure SM57 (Cardioid)
  • Instrument mic (violin) mounted on the violin
    (make/model of the mic)
  • Instrument mic (saxophone) mounted on the bell
    (make/model of the mic)

It would be really helpful if you can add the polar pattern for each microphone. For example: Shure SM58-Cardioid, Shure Beta 87A - Supercardioid.

You can get that from the manufacturer's website or the owners guide that came with the microphones.

Thanks

ST