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Forum_Admin
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Oct 11, 2016

Bose® L1® Model 1S and HK Elements

New discussion for posts related to comparisons between the Model 1S and the HK Elements.

Posts in this discussion thread have been consolidated here from various other threads so they are easily seen in one place.

Edit:
Please note that since the focus of this discussion has turned to the HK Elements, this is now outside the Terms of Service (linked from the bottom of every page in this message board).

This discussion is now closed.
19 REPLIES 19
kova
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Oct 5, 2008

Re: Bose® L1® Model 1S and HK Elements

I just bought the 1S with the B2 and was very disappointed. I don't mean to rain on Bose's parade with the launch of a new product, but I feel it's only fair to share my personal experience of the 1S so fellow readers get a fair and unbiased opinion. I will admit that I did not do a software update so the B2 works more efficiently, but that wasn't the problem at all. It had a decent amount of bass. Where it fell short was the tower. The speakers in the tower didn't have nearly the power, volume or clarity I was expecting. The system did a lot of "self compression" every time I tried to turn it up and the speakers sounded very muffled and flat. I recently switched to the HK Elements system a few months ago so I thought it was only fair to set the two systems side by side. Even though the HK only has 8 speakers in the tower vs. the 12 on the 1S, it was still a night a day difference. I won't elaborate any further because the last time I talked about HK, Bose shut down my post. I'm not affiliated with HK in any shape or form. I'm simply a consumer who's always on the look out for the best. I would like to end my review on a positive note by saying that I still own a Compact (for really small gigs) and I still use a T1 with the HK system. I'm still a Bose fan but the 1S didn't measure up to what I was expecting. There's no doubt in my mind that if Bose purchased an HK system, brought it back to their lab and set it up next to a Model 2, there jaws would be on the floor.
Craig-at-Bose
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Jan 26, 2007

Re: Bose® L1® Model 1S and HK Elements

Hi Kova,

First thanks for buying the Bose L1 Model 1S and B2 bass module! We believe, these new products provide best in class tonal balance, coverage and portability for audiences up to 300. And the B2 provides our most flexible, highest output bass solution for both the L1 Model 1S and Model II systems. What would be helpful to know is the position of the B2 bass module switch and this can effect the overall system EQ. I would recomend that you try the different B2 switch positions to see if that improves your situation.

It's hard to react to the A/B since I don't have a sense of the size of room you or your audio sources. I would encourage you to take the system out and try it in a live "real world" situation and then see how you feel. Also, please make sure you are not clipping the input as this could contribute to the "compression" you are experiancing. I want to help you get the most out of your Model 1S and B2 and your first experiance sounds like something is definitly not right.

One last detail, the Model 1S does not require a firmware update. This only applies to the L1 Model II system.

Please take the system out and feel free to report back on this thread or PM me.

Thanks,
Craig
kova
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Oct 5, 2008

Re: Bose® L1® Model 1S and HK Elements

Hi Craig,

First let me to say how much I appreciate you allowing me to voice my opinion openly. Secondly, I want you and the people at Bose to know that I have the utmost respect for you and your company. You have pioneered wonderful things that have allowed others to create from your ideas.

Being a Bose user (and fan) for over 5 years, I'm confident that the way I hooked up the 1S is correct. I'm a former owner of the Model 2 and used it for several hundred gigs. There's no doubt in my mind that I assembled the 1S correctly. Yes, I did try the B2 with all 3 settings, but it didn't make any difference with the results I was getting. I turned it on and off several times and checked all the connection points to make sure I didn't overlook anything. I spent a good hour testing it against my HK. I have no desire to throw Bose under the bus, but the results were undeniable. The 1S just didn't measure up.

My neighbor even came over to listen as well (not a musician) and said... "not only is it not nearly as loud, but it sounds like someone put a pillow in front of the Bose speakers compared to how clear your HK sounds."

By the way, I wasn't trying to be funny when I said the engineers at Bose should get their hands on an HK to "hear" what they've accomplished. You really need to do that if you haven't done so already.

Up until recently, Bose has been able to monopolize the industry by being the only choice when someone walks into Guitar Center looking for a line array system. That just changed 3 months ago and now HK is also available at Guitar Center. Before, you had to go to an "high end" shop to get HK. Those days are gone and now HK is available at one of the biggest music retailers in the country and will be sitting on the floor next to the L1. If that doesn't worry Bose, it should.


quote:
Originally posted by Craig-at-Bose:
Hi Kova,

First thanks for buying the Bose L1 Model 1S and B2 bass module! We believe, these new products provide best in class tonal balance, coverage and portability for audiences up to 300. And the B2 provides our most flexible, highest output bass solution for both the L1 Model 1S and Model II systems. What would be helpful to know is the position of the B2 bass module switch and this can effect the overall system EQ. I would recomend that you try the different B2 switch positions to see if that improves your situation.

It's hard to react to the A/B since I don't have a sense of the size of room you or your audio sources. I would encourage you to take the system out and try it in a live "real world" situation and then see how you feel. Also, please make sure you are not clipping the input as this could contribute to the "compression" you are experiancing. I want to help you get the most out of your Model 1S and B2 and your first experiance sounds like something is definitly not right.

One last detail, the Model 1S does not require a firmware update. This only applies to the L1 Model II system.

Please take the system out and feel free to report back on this thread or PM me.

Thanks,
Craig
Litesnsirens
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Sep 12, 2010

Re: Bose® L1® Model 1S and HK Elements

Something sounds weird Kova. I've never heard any Bose system sound like there's a pillow over the speakers, unless as Craig suggested, inputs are being overdriven and the auto compression kicks in. That's not a matter of being too loud just that the gain staging is a little off.

While I appreciate you have experience both in basic live sound and with the actual Bose systems, I also have plenty of experience. I've been playing in bands since I was 14 and I'm now 51. Despite all that experience, there are still times when I overlook something here or there. I'm not immune to it, I don't think anybody is.

ST has A/B'd the L1S with his Model II I think he would have reported to us if the 1S sounded like it had a blanket over it compared to a Model II.
I own a model II so I know how clear the sound is, I can't believe that there would be a significant change other than over all volume between the 2 and the 1S.

So it leaves me wondering if either, there is something physically wrong or defective in the system you bought or if there is just something that you are overlooking.

Sorry, I just can't put any faith in a review that describes the sound from any Bose L1 system as having a pillow in front of it. All a review like tells me is something is off.

Is there a 1S set up in the store you bought it from? If so I would take my sound source there and try it through the set up in the store to see if you notice a difference. In the interim I am going to endeavour to get out and hear a 1S for myself, who knows, maybe Bose has lost their minds and created a system that sounds muffled on purpose. It just seems to me to be a complete reversal of what they have achieved so far.
jukeboxjoe
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May 12, 2009

Re: Bose® L1® Model 1S and HK Elements

Kova, a couple of points:

(1) You suggest in your first post that Bose should be worried if they were to hear an HK system next to a Model 2. HK's recommended configuration for an audience of 500 (ie the equivalent of Model 2) consists of two line arrays and two woofers at 41 lbs each. Are you sure Bose should be worried?

(2) How is being the first to design a line array a "monopoly"? If Bose used unethical business practices to put other array makers out of business, I could see your point. But the subsequent creation of HK (or Fishman) array systems doesn't look like the "end of a monopoly", but simply other companies trying their hand at it.
macmike100
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Feb 13, 2010

Re: Bose® L1® Model 1S and HK Elements

One thing too. I don't know if this has been mentioned yet. The Bose systems can be placed behind the performer and are very resistant to feedback...not requiring floor monitors.
Yes, the weight of other systems compared to the Bose is a very important factor as well.
Oldghm
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May 25, 2004

Re: Bose® L1® Model 1S and HK Elements

Hi Kova,

I'm just wondering. When you set up the systems for comparison did you use the same or different EQ on the T1. Different companies might have very different signal processing built in the powerstands. If you did not optimize EQ for each system seperately that could explain some difference.

O..
macmike100
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Feb 13, 2010

Re: Bose® L1® Model 1S and HK Elements

Another thing, probably not very scientific but I would notice how my Mackie SR450's sounded great and because of that I held off buying Bose for a long time.

What finally convinced me was...I finally took a chance and bought a couple of L1/II's anyway because my competitors were using them and sounding great...I had to try them out on stage at a gig.

The difference was very dramatic in that the coverage, power, bass response and prevention of feedback was so very much more superior.

If I were to compare the two brands side by side and compared them standing a few feet away playing recorded music from them...I'd probably not notice much difference. The thing that would stand out mostly would probably be the power. Most big boxes these days have lots of power.

Where Bose beats everyone else is that they sound great, great coverage, low feedback, low weight, 40hz bass response, good power, easy to pack up etc, and integrated sound...no added monitors or additional things needed.

So there are too many users IMO that are happy with their Bose equipment to even consider a bad comparison...which can be possible if done as I described. Again, not scientific but probably real world.
boseguyincalgar
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Oct 13, 2004

Re: Bose® L1® Model 1S and HK Elements

I think a point that needs to be raised here is the pitfall one may encounter when comparing two imperfect devices with one another.

I have A-B compared at least a hundred times, two or more speakers one to the other. One that stands out was the head-to-head comparison of the L1 Model I Classic to some very high-priced European studio monitor systems at The Banff Center in Banff, Alberta (known world-wide for their music and audio recording programs).

The L1 ultimately was chosen by a group of professors and students as the more "natural" sounding system only AFTER I suggested they compare both systems to a third sound, and that was what they thought a live group of musicians would sound like if they were in the studio with us. That was much easier for them than, as I suggested, comparing one speaker against another.

My point here is that if one system is overly bright or even a touch louder than the other, the second system can sound "muffled".

My personal experience with my Model 1S demos is that this system in a church sanctuary sounds so close to a Model II at a distance that I would be hard pressed to ask for the extra money to upgrade to a II.