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Considering T4S/T8S Stereo Options

Hi there !

Not been on the Bose forum for quite some time but I have just noticed there are some new Tonematch mixers.

i have a blues acoustic duo, and we bought one Bose L1mkII, two B1 bass modules, and each use a T1 Tonematch mixer, about 8yrs ago - and love using them. In some pub gigs, with a small PA system already set up, and no room to set up the L1 additionally, we have often used just our Tonematch mixers with the in-house PA and still got great results. Our Tonematch mixers are awesome !! We would plug one directly with the digital input, and the 2 Tonematch would go into the analogue input. I could never tell who was going through the digital/analogue channel, to be honest.

We play a wide variety of instruments (mostly acoustic guitars, some with piezo, some with magnetic pickups, a 12-string whose output is much lower than the others. I mic up (SM57) a Fender Blues Jnr for some e.guitar tunes, plus some vocal mics AND a full 88’s e.piano. We both swap around instruments a lot - especially me, between piano, acoustic guitars and mic’d up electric guitars.

With the one L1mkII, my 88’s e.piano never sounded great in mono (as the Bose’s crystal clear sound shows up the phasing issues of digitally sampled e.pianos that summing L&R outputs together causes (not Bose’s fault).

Now, we have a new 3rd member of the band, who also sings, plays acoustic guitar, piano, mandolin, and through the vocal mic, any of harmonica, washboard or jug !

We need more channels and possibly another L1.

The possibility of running my e.piano (now a Roland RD800) in stereo is very enticing. 

I play piano and Hammond (clone) organ in another band, so invested in a pair of powered PA speakers (Yamaha DXR-12’s) to run my keyboard in stereo. I should consider using these with a stereo Tonematch, imstead of the L1 perhaps.

Last point - many years ago, for the “future Tonematch request thread”, I requested (with my acoustic duo band in mind) the possibilty of having one of the Tonematch channels to have user-defined/saved presets. Handy for a musician who swaps between different instruments, and using my own saved presets for ideal EQ etc for each of my instruments), all set up to chose between, on the same channel.

I’m not sure how stereo inpits work on these new Tonematch mixers.

Is there just ONE stereo, input channel ? If so, can I pair channels together for more stereo instruments ? (Obviously, that would eat up more channels and I’d have to have all parameters the same on both channels !) ???

 

In an ideal world, I would have channels :

1. Vocal mic 1 (SM58)

2. Stereo piano channel

3. Mic’d up electric guitar (SM57 on Fender amp)

4. Acoustic instrument channel, with say six user presets, saved for instant recall, depending on which of my six instruments I might want to play through this channel. (Some have piezo, some have magnetic pickups, some louder output than others, so EQ and relative volume settings are different for each instrument). The original “Scenes” type set-up, for me, is no good, as it’s only really one channel I want to toggle between user presets, 

5. Vocal mic 2 (SM58)

6. Acoustic instrument channel (set-up like Ch4, with user defined/saved presets for each instument)

7. Vocal mic 3 (SM57) - and for “acoustic” harmonica

8. Acoustic instrument channel (set-up like Ch4, with user defined/saved presets for each instument)

I could use a TRS jack Output socket to our L1mkII analogue input, AND use both XLR outputs to my pair of powered PA speakers, to use L1 (perhaps as our monitor) AND powered PA speakers (perhaps as FOH) all at the same time, yes ???

The ability to have a channel dedicated to having my own instrument presets (user-defined & pre saved) would be a game changer for me, and I would Most likely buy the new 8-channel Tonematch, if it could be set up like this.

is there just one stereo input channel ??

Sorry for the long reply !

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Re: Considering T4S/T8S Stereo Options

Hi Snake Hips,

It's great to see you here again.

snakehips posted:

Hi there !

Not been on the Bose forum for quite some time but I have just noticed there are some new Tonematch mixers.

i have a blues acoustic duo, and we bought one Bose L1mkII, two B1 bass modules, and each use a T1 Tonematch mixer, about 8yrs ago - and love using them. In some pub gigs, with a small PA system already set up, and no room to set up the L1 additionally, we have often used just our Tonematch mixers with the in-house PA and still got great results.

Our Tonematch mixers are awesome !! We would plug one directly with the digital input, and the 2 Tonematch would go into the analogue input. I could never tell who was going through the digital/analogue channel, to be honest.

We play a wide variety of instruments (mostly acoustic guitars, some with piezo, some with magnetic pickups, a 12-string whose output is much lower than the others. I mic up (SM57) a Fender Blues Jnr for some e.guitar tunes, plus some vocal mics AND a full 88’s e.piano. We both swap around instruments a lot - especially me, between piano, acoustic guitars and mic’d up electric guitars.

With the one L1mkII, my 88’s e.piano never sounded great in mono (as the Bose’s crystal clear sound shows up the phasing issues of digitally sampled e.pianos that summing L&R outputs together causes (not Bose’s fault).

Thanks for all the great background information.

Now, we have a new 3rd member of the band, who also sings, plays acoustic guitar, piano, mandolin, and through the vocal mic, any of harmonica, washboard or jug !

We need more channels and possibly another L1.

Yes, it sounds like you need more channels. How soon do you have to make a move? In your shoes, I'd consider picking up a T8S for you and keeping the T1®s for the others.

You can run the T8S directly to the L1® and one T1® into the L1® Model II power stand and the other T1® into one of the T8S channels. 

I like this approach because each performer controls his own mix and no one is responsible for managing someone else's sound. 

The possibility of running my e.piano (now a Roland RD800) in stereo is very enticing. 

This is why you get the T8S.

I play piano and Hammond (clone) organ in another band, so invested in a pair of powered PA speakers (Yamaha DXR-12’s) to run my keyboard in stereo. I should consider using these with a stereo Tonematch, imstead of the L1 perhaps.

Last point - many years ago, for the “future Tonematch request thread”, I requested (with my acoustic duo band in mind) the possibilty of having one of the Tonematch channels to have user-defined/saved presets. Handy for a musician who swaps between different instruments, and using my own saved presets for ideal EQ etc for each of my instruments), all set up to chose between, on the same channel.

We don't have the ability to have user-defined presets, but you with the T8S you've got more channels for your multiple instruments.

I’m not sure how stereo inpits work on these new Tonematch mixers.

Is there just ONE stereo, input channel ?

Each stereo input will take up two channels.

The T8S has eight combo inputs. Each one can be panned left-right. The four Aux inputs are routed directly to the Master output, but you can control the pan and level. 

If so, can I pair channels together for more stereo instruments ? (Obviously, that would eat up more channels and I’d have to have all parameters the same on both channels !) ???

You can't pair the channels for stereo. Each stereo instrument will take two channels, and yes, you'll have to have all the parameters the same on both channels.

In an ideal world, I would have channels :

1. Vocal mic 1 (SM58)

Channel 1

2. Stereo piano channel

Channels 2 and 3 (or consider using a pair of Aux inputs)

3. Mic’d up electric guitar (SM57 on Fender amp)

Channel 4

4. Acoustic instrument channel, with say six user presets, saved for instant recall, depending on which of my six instruments I might want to play through this channel. (Some have piezo, some have magnetic pickups, some louder output than others, so EQ and relative volume settings are different for each instrument). The original “Scenes” type set-up, for me, is no good, as it’s only really one channel I want to toggle between user presets, 

You got five scenes. They can all be identical except fo the settings on Channel 4.  This should give you what you want, you get five instead of the six user preset equivalents.

5. Vocal mic 2 (SM58)

Channel 6

6. Acoustic instrument channel (set-up like Ch4, with user defined/saved presets for each instument)

Channel 7.  We can't do the user-defined/saved presets

7. Vocal mic 3 (SM57) - and for “acoustic” harmonica

Channel 8

8. Acoustic instrument channel (set-up like Ch4, with user defined/saved presets for each instument)

Oops, we ran out of channels unless you run the stereo input into a pair of Aux inputs



I could use a TRS jack Output socket to our L1mkII analogue input, AND use both XLR outputs to my pair of powered PA speakers, to use L1 (perhaps as our monitor) AND powered PA speakers (perhaps as FOH) all at the same time, yes ???

Yes, you can do that.



The ability to have a channel dedicated to having my own instrument presets (user-defined & pre saved) would be a game changer for me, and I would Most likely buy the new 8-channel Tonematch, if it could be set up like this.

is there just one stereo input channel ??

You've got four Aux inputs. You could use them as stereo pairs, but there's no processin the the Aux inputs. You get Level and Pan as they are routed to the Main outputs.

Sorry for the long reply !

Lot's to consider.

Good to think about this with you.

ST

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Re: Considering T4S/T8S Stereo Options

Hi again,

Thanks very much for your help so far.

When my bandmate and I bought our Bose L1 mkII system, with a Tonematch mixer each, I was amazed at the available help online from Bose, for the Tonematch mixer (including the virtual Tonematch page and the Bose forum AND helpful staff like yourself). With all those available online tools, I already knew how to operate and even program my Tonematch mixer, for how I was going to use it, before I even got it !! That was circa 8-9yrs ago, and I don’t think such online help was so common in those days (maybe I’m wrong about that ?) !! 

With my bandmate and I using two Tonematch mixers into ONE L1mkII, one into the digital input, one into the analogue input, I must admit, I never noticed any difference in sound quality. We used to alternate who used the digital input. I used it more as I was more bothered whether there might be a difference or not - but to be honest, I couldn’t detect one.

We have both been very happy with our Tonematch mixers, used with or even without the L1. It has been a great unit to use in gigs, with VERY little fine tuning ever required between gigs, other than a bit of volume tweaking between channels. A real “set it and leave it” system yet sounding amazing every time. The only times we ever ran into problems was when we were cramped into a small space to the point of having some feedback problems. Not very often though.

The new T8S looks ideal for our expanding group, whilst still allowing us to use our existing T1’s, when required, but as far as I can tell, it will be so similar in use - the same “format” / system, just more channels ?

For small venue gigs, where there isn’t much time to set up a full PA system, I would plan to still have my e.piano in mono, and just use the L1 with the T8S (and a T1 if needed).

For larger venues, especially if I have more time to set up a full sound system, I envisage using my pair of powered PA speakers for FOH sound, with my e.piano in stereo through these speakers, and using the L1 for further audio spread AND to help us hear ourselves clearly. I could still feed my e.piano through the L1 (in mono) to hear my piano better.

As a half-way house, although I don’t know how well it would work, I might get an approximation of stereo for my e.piano, using just one powered PA speaker and the one L1. Would that be a bit of a train crash ??? (For the piano, stereo-wise ?).

Many thanks !

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Re: Considering T4S/T8S Stereo Options

Snakehips..could u help me? I'll explain  Jazz band 5 members, Have now the t8 with L1 1s and 2 812s. Lead vocal sm58a and 1 kurz keyboard 1 korg synthesizer. 1 sax mic using phantom, 1 lead guitar and his vocal  Bass using his own amp, and unmiced drums. This was all in the T1 that came with L1. I'd switch vocal from synthesizer back and forth and guitar vocal. I was working hard to keep up. 1st gig with T8 coming next weekend, my cellphone on pandora for break time music sounds like it's in a barrel, cant get my wifes vocal tuned in like the T1......I'm scared 

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Re: Considering T4S/T8S Stereo Options

Hi Marker82,

Welcome to the Bose Portable PA Community. 

Please make sure your T8S has the latest updates. See

T4S/T8S Firmware Update Instructions



How are you planning to use the L1 Model 1S and two F1 Model 812 systems?





For example:
L1 behind the band for monitors



F1 Model 812 systems in front of the band facing the audience as Front of House PA


ST

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Re: Considering T4S/T8S Stereo Options

Hi Marker82,

Wow, that sounds a complicated set-up “on paper” !

 

I haven’t been using my Bose gear so much in the last couple of years as most of gigs are festival gigs with in-house big PA systems, sound guys etc, so everything been done for me. 

So, I’ll try my best to help but bare in mind I may suggest something that might not work, but I’ll try & go from 1st principals.

1. You’ve got 4 outputs - two for the L1’s and two for the F1 812’s.

I don’t think it matters which speakers you use for the XLR outputs and which for balanced jack outputs, as long as you have the right cables already. L1’s behind you (or to the sides facing in at you ?) as monitors, and the 812’s as FOH speakers, in front of you all.

Connect them all up but leave the the volume turned way down (or leave switched off) the 812’s while you soundcheck, THEN when happy, switch on and bring up the volume of the 812’s, making any necessary tweaks to the sound.

2. Do you still have your T1 ???

You can still use it, plugged into one of the Aux channels, I forget where/how exactly (look further up for ST’s explanation on this point), how to control the volume of the Aux channel you use, in the Master output section - it will just be Volume control though - but you can still do all the EQ etc you want from the T1.

So, that just expanded the number of channels to 12 ! Perhaps use the T1 for anyone in the band who doesn’t want to learn new gear again, so they can stick to the T1 they know and understand (the T8S isn’t much different though). 

3. Excluding keyboards, how many channels do you need ?

If you have 4 channels left, you could use two each, to put your keyboards in stereo ?? Yes, that uses a LOT of channels up, but how important is the keyboards to your sound ? Is the lead member the keyboard player ??

I know keyboards (especially pianos) sound not great in Mono (or L/Mono, or Ch4&5 of the T1 ! You only ever got mono !!! Now with the T8S you can get stereo !!)

 

Beyond that, I don’t see what else should have changed for you, so don’t try to complicate things more than they need to.

Does that help ??