Funkifized
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Aug 9, 2019

Feedback at higher volume

We tried our new L1 at a bar gig. Singer with his microphone, electric piano, and drum machine, singing maybe ten feet away to the side of the unit is getting feedback, therefore unable to turn up the system to fill the room. Mid-sized room, a bit noisy, but I thought that the L1 was made to suppress feedback? If we can't turn the system to without getting feedback, this is of no use to us.

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Jewel_AV_Albury
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Jul 16, 2019

Re: Feedback at higher volume

Hi, what type of microphone is the vocalist using (make/model)?

Takefive
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Apr 26, 2020

Re: Feedback at higher volume

Our band just started using the L1 a month ago and struggled big time with the same problem.  Very frustrating to say the least.   Through this forum and a very informative sales guy at GC we have solved the problem.  You will surely get more professional advice from others, however turn the trim way down. Most of our trim settings are now approximately at the 10 o’clock position.  In addition when getting feedback mute the effects on each channel to see if it eliminates the feedback.  If it does make some effects changes.   We are very happy with the sound.  Good luck.

 

Funkifized
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Re: Feedback at higher volume

Jewel AV Albury posted:

Hi, what type of microphone is the vocalist using (make/model)?

One of the mics feeding back is a standard Shure SM58. We can't go past 4 on the L1 without feedback.

rogueacoustic
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Dec 26, 2018

Re: Feedback at higher volume

Mic choice is essential. You’re going to need one with at least a supercardioid polar pattern. My partner and I use the Audix OM2 and OM5 with pretty good success. 

I have his mic much hotter than mine, so I’ve had to eq the heck out of it. A parametric eq is your friend. 

Good luck. 

rogueacoustic
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Re: Feedback at higher volume

Also, a trick I’ve learned on this forum is to turn the master on your mixer up fairly high in order to keep your input levels down. I’m running my T4S up around 2 o’clock with my input and channel trims around 10 o’clock. 

ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

Re: Feedback at higher volume

Hi Funkifized,

Welcome to the Bose Portable PA Community.

Funkifized posted:

We tried our new L1 at a bar gig.

Congratulations on getting your new L1.



Singer with his microphone, electric piano, and drum machine, singing maybe ten feet away to the side of the unit is getting feedback, therefore unable to turn up the system to fill the room. Mid-sized room, a bit noisy, but I thought that the L1 was made to suppress feedback? If we can't turn the system to without getting feedback, this is of no use to us.

I'm sorry you're having a problem with feedback. Thanks for all the background information.

We have comprehensive article about dealing with feedback.

Please see Microphone Feedback

Does that help?
ST

Jeff_K
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Sep 13, 2018

Re: Feedback at higher volume

We use a pair of Compacts for our 4-person acoustic band, and we position them behind and outside of the left- and right-most members (we line up L-R). We have a cardioid Sennheiser e835 for my wife on lead, then a cardioid EV RE-15 for daughter's fiance, a hypercarioid Audix OM2 for my daughter (sitting on a Cajon) and an SM58 for me. The only one we have the occasional high pitched ring from is my wife's Sennheiser if it's pointing up more towards the speaker section. It helps if we angle it down more, which makes sense pattern-wise. We had the same issue with my daughter's original SM58 mic as it's on a low mic stand pointing up, so we swapped it out for the tighter patterned Audix and adjusted the mic angle less "upward" a bit and that helped as well.

As mentioned, make sure your gain structure for your mixer is set up properly before it even gets to the Compacts. We use an analog Soundcraft Signature12 MTX mixer into our Compacts and, whether rehearsing or live, we set our channel levels up so the output meters is generally bouncing into the yellow range (+3 to +10) and averaging around the 0dB mark. Then we just set the Compact volumes as needed for practice or venue use (typically 10-12 o'clock). If your mixer output meter is consistently running below -12 dB, you'll be pushing the Compacts more than needed which can push you closer to feedback.

Note: if you're using a digital mixer with meters that top out at 0dBFS, i.e. 0dB "Full Scale", instead of going from negative through 0dB to positive, remember that 0dBu analog is actually equivalent to -18dBFS digital. Typically both analog and digital green/yellow/red colored meter areas will track for ease of use so if you're unsure: Green=Good, Yellow=Okay But Be Careful, Red=Bad

Hope this helps,

Jeff

gerardsound
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Aug 8, 2019

Re: Feedback at higher volume

Ok, have 4 Bose L1 mode11, for about 3 years. You must put everything in perspective. 

Our band has no problems, and the sound is awesome. Constant compliments on the quality of the Bose L1s and the blending. And yes, we are a dance band. E drums, Bass, Guitar, Keys, 2 front vocalist, plus 2 additional mics for guitarist and keyboardist. All genres, from all decades.

Best microphones to use: 

Audix OM5, OM7, Electro-Voice ND86, or ND96., these work the best for feedback in our situation. May not be your favorites mic, but they flow and sound awesome for most voices.

Some recommended mics not to use are Shure SM 58, Beta 87. 

Yes, put the towers behind you, use as monitors and mains, the audience hears what you hear, just like Bose has always advertised.

Do not let the mics point toward the towers, be at least 2 to 3 feet to the left or right. Obviously, the smaller the set up area, the more challenging it can get. Who ever is setting up the pa, monitor all members of your group on this. Be mindful, if they don't cooperate.

Of course if you really kick the volume up like crazy, you'll cook yourselves and be a disaster. Very important: over emphasis again, common sense with all this.

E drums works the best. Obviously you can control the volume. There is some incredible new technology for E drums on the market today. However, many drummers despise them, especially in a live situation. Blending all instruments, including E drums is a beautiful thing, but doesn't flow with many musicians.  If you have patience, cooperation from all members in your group, there is nothing like it. I do have 4 decades of experience with bands and running sound. Good luck!

 

 

ChetDude
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May 10, 2018

Re: Feedback at higher volume

Feedback is when the source sound emanating from the speakers is picked up by the source generator (usually microphones) and fed back into the system in sufficient quantity to create an ever louder loop of sound -- feeding-back.

So the signal path: trimmers, channel faders (and EQ - boost is amplification) and master volume controls on mixer and PA are not the CAUSE of feedback -- it's the SUM of those settings that matters...  Trimmer+fader+(EQ)+Master+PA Gain.

As some have indicated, some microphones are better at rejecting the frequency ranges that cause the most problems with Bose systems than other microphones are.  Supercardioid patterns are best, omnidirectional worst, etc.  And of course the more microphones, the more potential for feedback.

Location, location, location: of the speakers and microphones is critical.  And sometimes, there really is a limit as to how loud you can be in any particular room with any particular band.  One advantage with Bose is that you can shoot for a reasonable volume and they will cut through most noise without blasting those nearest the system.

One of my rules of thumb is that if the feedback can't be controlled by mic positioning and EQ CUTS in the offending frequencies, either lower the master volume or move the system further away from the band.

Read the excellent article ST posted the link for and good luck.