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May 11, 2020

Fundraiser - Everyone to the Stage!

Hi RadicalDad,
Thanks for using The Sketcher!
This is just a quick note to send you a link to your Sketch in case you want to review it, edit it, or share it with others.


 
-- click image to make changes to the live version --

I added green numbers to represent the performers' names. I guessed that position #1 is one person doing dual duty.

Legend:

Quoting RadicalDad from The Sketcher
? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?
This sketch is for a fundraiser tomorrow evening after Shabbat. Just about everyone who plays an instrument is involved, including some old members who are driving 2 hours to play at this event. I needed to sketch this out so I could plot the inputs. Too many for my T1's. I am using two big mixers instead.

Thanks for creating the sketcher - much faster than what I had in mind for this project. One thing I could have used was the ability to put names at each position so people can look at the sketch and know where they need to set up on the stage.
We can't add text to the Sketcher unless you want to download the file (see attachments at the end of this message). Then you can add the names using a photo editor like Photoshop or Snagit Editor.
This is an unusual application for the sketcher, so may not be worth your time to add that feature. If there is already a way to do this, I cannot figure it out.
I used green numbers to represent the people. You can make a list like this and people can figure out where they should go.
Alice #3
Bob #1
Carol #2
Ted #4
I also wanted to indicate a lav mic. The little thingy next to my upright bass and guitar on the far left is what I used for a lav mic icon.
Yes, that's a lavalier microphone.
I have no idea if that is what it really is. You need not reply about the band layout itself unless you have suggestions.
I have a couple of observations:
  • With all of these microphones your gain-before-feedback could be lower than you hope
  • You can increase the gain-before-feedback by panning every source hard to one side or the other.
    Pan inputs 1 through 7 to the L1® on the left
    Pan inputs 7 through 13 to the L1® on the right
  • The lavalier microphone could be a source of feedback if it's omni-directional.  If you experience feedback, I'd shut down the lavalier microphone first as the most likely culprit.
  • One more suggestion to come - see the next post.
This is a glorified sing-along - refined sound quality is not a requirement! Fun for the participants, both on and off the stage, is the point. And generating a little revenue also. We call these "'fun-raisers." Thanks again.
.

Please see the attachments below; with numbers, and without.

When you click on the thumbnails you'll see the full size version of the image. You can right-click the full size image and download it.

Cheers!

ST

@RadicalDad

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Re: Fundraiser - Everyone to the Stage!

Hi Radical Dad,

I would put the L1®s closer together like this.  

Fun raiser with numbers L1s behind performers

Pan 1 through 6 so they are heard only through the Left L1®.

Pan 7 through 13 so they are heard only through the Right L1®.

Panning each input to be hear through only one L1® should give you these advantages compared to panning to both L1®s

  • Better gain-before-feedback
  • Better monitoring experience for the performers
  • A nice audio image for the audience 
    • There will be a stronger correlation between what they see and what they hear

Have fun!

ST

@RadicalDad

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Re: Fundraiser - Everyone to the Stage!

ST, thanks for the tips.  I was wondering if I should pan the mics & inputs right and left.  Interesting that this will also help with gain before feedback.

I had been thinking to angle the two L1s from the corners (can't rotate the icons in the sketcher), but I will try your suggestion of moving the L1s closer to the middle as you have shown.

I'm wearing the lavalier mic because I need both my mic and guitar to be wireless so I can move to lead the Havdalah (end-of-Shabbat) service.  I've used the lav with my L1s before and not had much problem - the lav mic isn't omnidirectional.  I also have a hook-over-the-ear "face" mic (what are those things called?) which might work better - closer to the mouth so needs less gain.  I usually use this for outdoor venues where controlling volume is harder, but whether the "face" mic is better than the lav on feedback issues is hard to say  - I've not really noticed the difference, but neither have I ever had the time to do a controlled experiment.  Thoughts on that?  This is their show - I'm only singing "lead" on one song, so I can shut it off or turn it down for the rest of the time.

Thanks again.  Always great to get your input.

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Re: Fundraiser - Everyone to the Stage!

Hi Radical Dad,

Here is your lastest version of the stage layout.

Fun raiser with numbers L1s behind performers 2

RadicalDad posted:

ST, thanks for the tips.  I was wondering if I should pan the mics & inputs right and left.  Interesting that this will also help with gain before feedback.

There are a couple of principles at play here:

  • Gain-before-feedback drops as you add microphones to a system
  • Gain-before-feedback drops as you add more loudspeakers to a system

I see twelve microphones. If you pan them up the middle, both L1®s are connected to twelve microphones, and each microphone is heard through two L1®s (two paths for feedback).

If you split the microphones by panning each one hard to one side (one L1) then

  • You have six microphones for each L1®. This will give you more gain-before-feedback than having twelve microphones per L1®
  • For each microphone, there is only one source of feedback  - the one L1® to which it is panned.

I had been thinking to angle the two L1s from the corners (can't rotate the icons in the sketcher),

In the lower right corner of the Sketcher you'll see

Click an item in the Sketcher and then you can rotate it by clicking on these buttons.

but I will try your suggestion of moving the L1s closer to the middle as you have shown.

I'm wearing the lavalier mic because I need both my mic and guitar to be wireless so I can move to lead the Havdalah (end-of-Shabbat) service.  I've used the lav with my L1s before and not had much problem - the lav mic isn't omnidirectional.  I also have a hook-over-the-ear "face" mic (what are those things called?) which might work better - closer to the mouth so needs less gain.

Headset or Head Worn microphones. Generally, these give you better gain-before-feedback because they are closer to the sound source (your mouth).

  I usually use this for outdoor venues where controlling volume is harder, but whether the "face" mic is better than the lav on feedback issues is hard to say  - I've not really noticed the difference, but neither have I ever had the time to do a controlled experiment.  Thoughts on that?  This is their show - I'm only singing "lead" on one song, so I can shut it off or turn it down for the rest of the time.

Thanks again.  Always great to get your input.

You're welcome.

ST

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Re: Fundraiser - Everyone to the Stage!

Hi Radical Dad,

Here is your latest Sketch.

Fun raiser with numbers L1s behind performers 3

ST

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Re: Fundraiser - Everyone to the Stage!

ST, please see latest sketch.

The harmonica player (Mic input #13) used to work in broadcast television and was badly injured by a careless tech while wearing an in-ear monitor.  She freaks out with loud sounds and being too close to the speakers.  I either need to move her position (not so hard to do) or move the L1s back to the corners and angle them.  Thoughts on what might be best?

(BTW, the injured harmonica player LOVES the L1 system.  She won't play these gigs unless I promise to use them!)

Again, major thanks.  You are making my life easier!

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Re: Fundraiser - Everyone to the Stage!

Never mind!  I just moved her anyway.

Again, thanks for your help.

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Re: Fundraiser - Everyone to the Stage!

Hi Radical Dad,

Here's your latest Sketch.

Fun raiser with numbers L1s behind performers 4