Gig report. Adding an S1 for a monitor?

[Boy_Narf]

Hi friends,

I think my above plan will work, just waiting for a TRS --> stereo cable to get here.

Anyway...

I have used the S1 twice now for monitoring and I think I may be doing something wrong. I have the T1 AUX out going to the S1 channel 1 with a 20' TRS cable. Now I have the AUX out set to 50% on channel 1 which is our vocal mic. The S1 has to be around 1030-1100 on the gain dial to keep it out of the red (I tried lowering the bass and treble to get a bit more headroom but it didn't do anything). Now at this setting the S1 is barely audible (if we are playing). I set it up right next to the singer in both kick back orientations and he kept asking if I turned it on or not (about 5 feet away). I also tried it as a drum monitor with my brothers band and he said he couldn't hear it either.

Do I have something setup wrong, or does this speaker have trouble cutting through a mix due to warmer EQ curve?

I read through the "S1 pro as a monitor with a T1" and I have it setup exactly as specified. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get a bit more headroom out of this? Should I be cranking the aux out volume and lowering the S1 volume? Or vice versa?

Thanks,

UPDATE: I just did a bit more troubleshooting. My Godin A6 through the Taylor T5 preamp can get painfully loud through the S1. My mic using the SM58 preset however is very quiet. 

[Boy_Narf]

Apparently I can't edit any more.

I wanted to say I have the mix of guitar and vocals sounding beautiful in the L1. Aux out 50% on both channels into the S1. The guitar sounds loud and full, but the vocals are very muffled and quiet.

[ST - Pro]

Hi, Boy_Narf,

Boy_Narf posted:

Hi friends,

I think my above plan will work, just waiting for a TRS --> stereo cable to get here.

Anyway...

I have used the S1 twice now for monitoring and I think I may be doing something wrong. I have the T1 AUX out going to the S1 channel 1 with a 20' TRS cable. Now I have the AUX out set to 50% on channel 1 which is our vocal mic.

One the vocal channel set the level up - try 75% 

The S1 has to be around 1030-1100 on the gain dial to keep it out of the red (I tried lowering the bass and treble to get a bit more headroom but it didn't do anything).

10:30-11:00 sound about for a balanced cable with a source like the T1 Aux Output.

Red flickers are okay. Solid red - that's when you have to turn it down.

Now at this setting the S1 is barely audible (if we are playing). I set it up right next to the singer in both kick back orientations and he kept asking if I turned it on or not (about 5 feet away). I also tried it as a drum monitor with my brothers band and he said he couldn't hear it either.

Do I have something setup wrong, or does this speaker have trouble cutting through a mix due to warmer EQ curve?

Try setting the S1 Pro on the floor in the horizontal position. That changes the EQ to the monitor mode.

I read through the "S1 pro as a monitor with a T1" and I have it setup exactly as specified. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to get a bit more headroom out of this? Should I be cranking the aux out volume and lowering the S1 volume? Or vice versa?

From what you've told us, I would turn up the Vocal channel Aux send Level to 75% or higher with the Tap Point set to Post.

Consider turning down the Aux Level for the guitar. It may be masking the vocal.

Leave the volume on the S1 Pro at 10:30-11:00 (or higher if you can do that without hitting solid red on the channel LED).

Thanks,

UPDATE: I just did a bit more troubleshooting. My Godin A6 through the Taylor T5 preamp can get painfully loud through the S1.

I couldn't find any information about a Taylor T5 preamp, but the output of the preamp could be higher than the output of the T1. That could explain the difference.

My mic using the SM58 preset however is very quiet. 

If you have both the guitar and the vocal microphone connected directly to the S1 Pro, that's not surprising. See this article for more insights S1 Pro Microphone vs Guitar Volume

Boy_Narf posted:

Apparently I can't edit any more.

Posts are closed for editing after an hour.

I wanted to say I have the mix of guitar and vocals sounding beautiful in the L1. Aux out 50% on both channels into the S1. The guitar sounds loud and full, but the vocals are very muffled and quiet.

It sounds like you have some frequency masking (the guitar is overpowering the vocals in the S1 Pro).  That's why I suggested adjusting the Aux send levels (see notes above).

ST

[Boy_Narf]

Hey,

The setup is as follows.

1. SM58 into the T1 with the Tonematch SM58 preset.

2. Godin A6 Ultra into the T1 with the Taylor T5 preset. 

I did some mucking about and found I can get a bit more level by cranking the mic aux out to 100%, then slowly turning up the guitar aux out until it matches (60% did it). This is very strange because it's perfectly mixed coming through the L1. The vocals are full, cutting, and rich. I would think a direct copy of that off the AUX sends would reproduce the same sort of thing. I also tried running out of the master which seemed to get a touch louder, but I don't want to run my kick drum through the S1. We need all the headroom we can spare for vox.

Nice to know that red flickers are okay. This should get me about another 1/2 notch on the S1 gain dial.

I did a quick jam with a guitar and vocal into the T1 then aux out into the S1. At the point of clipping the vocals are no where near loud enough, even for busking IMO (I can shout louder than the S1). The guitar can be turned up to a painful level but I believe this is due to the T5 tonematch preset which is quite harsh and cutting on the top end. I feel like the S1 preamps can't handle much input in the low mid frequency range (where most male vocals sit). I feel like a multiband compressor or a HPF at the input stage of the S1 (to cut some lows/lowmids before they hit the preamp) would dramatically enhance the DB output of the little guy. 

I will try my above findings as well as putting it in the monitor position during the next jam. Will report back. Thanks ST.

[ChetDude]

I have found that the overall gain of the S1 Pro with dynamic mics like the Shure SM58 and Sennheiser e835s was rather anemic.  I've also had to turn the volume on the vocal channel way up compared to the guitar channel and when I've used a mixer to input to the S1.

I have also found that for larger spaces it's best to put the S1s on stands as that changes the EQ of the system to more effectively cover them.

Mostly I use a QSC Touchmix 16 into 2 Bose S1s and can easily cover 1/4 to 1/2 acre area outdoors or up to 150 people in a medium sized hall.

Two vocals, two guitars -- 2 electrics or electric and acoustic (Boss ME-80 on electric guitars).

[Boy_Narf]

The strange thing is that I get a good sounding mix through the l1 then when I run into the S1 mirroring the mix the vocals are super quiet. Both speaker systems have very different EQ curves of course and it seems the vocals primarily come out of the BE on the bigger system. The S1 of course has way less low end representation probably why it's more masked.

[Boy_Narf]

More testing shall take place on Friday, another question for ST if you have a moment. 

Is there any difference performance wise between running on battery or being plugged in? I should note all of my above testing was on battery.

[ST - Pro]

Hi Boy_Narf,

Boy_Narf posted:

Hey,

The setup is as follows.

1. SM58 into the T1 with the Tonematch SM58 preset.

2. Godin A6 Ultra into the T1 with the Taylor T5 preset. 

I did some mucking about and found I can get a bit more level by cranking the mic aux out to 100%, then slowly turning up the guitar aux out until it matches (60% did it). This is very strange because it's perfectly mixed coming through the L1. The vocals are full, cutting, and rich. I would think a direct copy of that off the AUX sends would reproduce the same sort of thing.

? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?

I'm not surprised by this. The S1 Pro and the L1 systems are different in so many ways.  But this is a great approach - set the vocals and then bring up the instruments to support, but not overpower the vocals.

That's why I suggested

ST posted:

? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?

From what you've told us, I would turn up the Vocal channel Aux send Level to 75% or higher with the Tap Point set to Post.

Consider turning down the Aux Level for the guitar. It may be masking the vocal.

Leave the volume on the S1 Pro at 10:30-11:00 (or higher if you can do that without hitting solid red on the channel LED).

? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ?

It sounds like you have some frequency masking (the guitar is overpowering the vocals in the S1 Pro).  That's why I suggested adjusting the Aux send levels (see notes above).

ST

I like the way you approached finding the mix.

ST

[ST - Pro]

Hi Boy_Narf,

Thanks for the great question.

Boy_Narf posted:

More testing shall take place on Friday, another question for ST if you have a moment. 

Is there any difference performance wise between running on battery or being plugged in? I should note all of my above testing was on battery.

There's no difference. Unlike some other systems (not Bose), the S1 Pro does not throttle or lower the output when running on the battery.

ST

[Boy_Narf]

So in between practices I've been using the S1P as a BT speaker while working. I will say at low volumes it's one of the best sounding BT devices I've heard. Details in songs I've never heard are coming through which is surprising considering I'm on BT. Anyway I've also encountered the "turn down for what" phenomenon. With bass heavy music the S1P gives up quickly and produces clicky sounding port noise, as well as some rear cabinet rattle. I found a 10 band EQ and went through the available bands. At lower volumes cutting a bit at 60hz does wonders to get a bit more headroom. Once it's really cranked I had to cut quite a bit at 100hz. The sound was still full but at least double the volume making it actually usable as a live music playback device. It's a shame the low end reaches it's max so quickly as the tweeters have impressive headroom and sound quality.

Now I know this goes against the Bose "sound signature philosophy" but I would love to see an EQ in the connect app or even a way to enable a baked in HPF for high volume playback (this would also give people the option to use non bose subs with the S1). Seriously an HPF with a standard slope around 100-150 would do wonders on this thing (I can't find an app on android). I understand it's capability as a speaker for sure but it's a shame we need something like an F1 sub to apply a HPF. 

Unfortunately most of the EQ apps on the play store are buggy trash and my OnePlus5 doesn't offer an EQ over bluetooth. I dug out my wife's old Galaxy S7 which has a built in system wide EQ which works perfectly! Finally I can get some decent volume out of this little thing! That said if I'm playing any sort of rock or metal music the S1 gets painfully loud. I've been on a "chillhop" kick lately and it doesn't take much for the S1 to run out of steam with that genre. 

I've got a work around but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE add a HPF option in software.

"enable high volume playback mode" Yes please!

I'll be back next week with the findings after our next jam using it as a monitor.