Highlighted
Contributor
  • 14
  • 50
  • 0
Registered since

Jul 3, 2018

Re: Mixing L1 and F1 speakers for live performance

XLR Outputs from T8 to each F1, Analog output from T8 to L1 Power base is how I do it, and I would use your mixer outs for FOH

 

Highlighted
Member
  • 2
  • 8
  • 0
Registered since

Apr 29, 2019

Re: Mixing L1 and F1 speakers for live performance

ST posted:

Hi h2ostreet,

Welcome to the Bose Portable PA Community.  Thanks for the interesting question.

h2oStreet posted:

Our 4 piece band has a theatre gig coming up max 350 but bleacher seating and a very high ceiling.  We own an L1 model II with B2 bass that works for small club performances (drums/bass/guitar/keys/3vocals through a T8s TM mixer and love the fact we no longer need monitors!!!

It's great isn't it.



We feel we need a little more sound reinforcement for this hall. In our area only L1 model I's and F1's are available to rent.  So here are my questions

We need some more information about the bleacher seating to give you an informed answer.





1) Will a rented L1 Model 1 with B2 bass with our own T8s/model II/B2 system fill out the sound and help the band better hear our own performance on this lager stage and fill the room sufficiently.  If yes, how far apart should the two systems be placed? 

It depends on the answers to the questions in the sketch above.



2) Would renting an F1 812 plus F1 sub and using it with our T8s/L1 model II system work better? Or does the mixing the two systems create sonic anomalies.  If this can work how far apart should the 2 systems be placed 

If there will be people seated above the top of the L1 Model II, you would be better served by renting a couple of F1 Model 812 systems.

You can use your L1 Model II as your stage monitor and the F1 Model 812  systems for the front of house system.

Please tell us about your music.  How vocals, and what instruments do you have in your band? What style of music are you performing. What is the audience doing while you perform? (listening attentively, singing along, or ...)

This will help us figure out if you need F1 subwoofers.



3) Can we position the F1/sub behind the band like we do the Model II to avoid having monitors in front of the players or is this a recipe for feedback. (videos seem to show F1 systems used a FOH with monitors for vocalists)   Lots of questions and really looking forward to your response. 

This depends on the number of open microphones and instruments you are putting through the system, but for a band Bose recommends using putting the F1 Model 812 systems at the front of the stage (instead of behind you). This means you will use the L1 Model II on the stage, behind you for monitoring.



thanks

Nice to meet you,

ST

Hi  ST,  Nice to meet you too! As you requested, I have added a plan view of the room and 2 pics.  One from the top of the last row of seats facing the stage area and the other from the stage to the raised seating.  The stage area is level with the floor (for max accessibility) There are 15 rows of seating.   The flat area in front of the raised seats is for floor level chairs and dancing.... we hope.   The max capacity is 400 not 350.  Although we expect around 250-300.   Please let me know what set up would work best and how to connect the 3 speaker sets (2F1s and the L1M2/B2) to the T8s.  

We are a 4 piece blues/blues rock band:

4 vocals, keys, accordion, drum kick/overheads.  We can either have the bass and the electric guitar to the air.  Alternatively we can mic the guitar and DI the bass but would need to add our T1 back in to accomplish this. Thanks for all your help with this. 

Highlighted
Member
  • 12
  • 24
  • 0
Registered since

Aug 3, 2018

Re: Mixing L1 and F1 speakers for live performance

Thanks Cowboy Upp.  I think that's the best way too.

Highlighted
Member
  • 2
  • 8
  • 0
Registered since

Apr 29, 2019

Re: Mixing L1 and F1 speakers for live performance

Cowboy Upp posted:

XLR Outputs from T8 to each F1, Analog output from T8 to L1 Power base is how I do it, and I would use your mixer outs for FOH

 

Thanks Cowboy Upp.  I was planning to use the T8 and the F1s as the FOH speakers and L1M2 as monitor so not sure what you meant by using the mixer outs for FOH.  That confused me. Please clarify thx for all your great advice.  Really appreciated. 

Highlighted
Member
  • 12
  • 24
  • 0
Registered since

Aug 3, 2018

Re: Mixing L1 and F1 speakers for live performance

I think Cowboy Upp's response was intended for me.  Sorry to jump into your thread, but you have raised an important issue which gave me food for thought on the solution to my own problem.

Thanks and apologies again!

Highlighted
Member
  • 6
  • 69
  • 0
Registered since

Apr 13, 2018

Re: Mixing L1 and F1 speakers for live performance

Great discussion , I`m the ower of an L1M2 & and F1 system , so this is of natural interest to me 

forgive my shortcommings I`m a visual person , for me it would be nice to see how some these intergrations "looked"

cheers 🙂

 

Highlighted
Professional Legend
  • 1412
  • 48121
  • 1
Registered since

May 11, 2020

Re: Mixing L1 and F1 speakers for live performance

Hi h2oStreet,

Thanks for the added information and pictures.

Here is why I asked these questions.

This is a non-scientific illustration of what you can expect.

The L1 Model II is at the far right.

I've shown the projection of the Cylindrical Radiator® (the tower) in the blue zone.  

People in the blue zone will hear the L1.

People above the blue zone will hear too, but the mid-high frequencies may be muffled.

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like the upper rows may not hear the sound clearly.  If you were expecting a full house, this could be a problem - one you could solve with Bose F1 Model 812 systems because you can direct sound upward.



h2oStreet posted:

Hi  ST,  Nice to meet you too! As you requested, I have added a plan view of the room and 2 pics. 

One from the top of the last row of seats facing the stage area and the other from the stage to the raised seating.  The stage area is level with the floor (for max accessibility) There are 15 rows of seating.   The flat area in front of the raised seats is for floor level chairs and dancing.... we hope.   The max capacity is 400 not 350.  Although we expect around 250-300.   Please let me know what set up would work best and how to connect the 3 speaker sets (2F1s and the L1M2/B2) to the T8s.  

We are a 4 piece blues/blues rock band:

4 vocals, keys, accordion, drum kick/overheads.  We can either have the bass and the electric guitar to the air.  Alternatively we can mic the guitar and DI the bass but would need to add our T1 back in to accomplish this. Thanks for all your help with this. 

You have a couple of options here:

Add another L1 (two total) and put them both behind the band

  • This will be familiar in terms of sound and setup
  • This will give you a consistent sound level until you get above the blue zone in the illustration. Above that, the mid-high frequencies may be muffled.
  • People will have the option to move up to the quieter area in the higher rows
  • Main sound and monitoring
    Connect the T8S Main Left/Right Outputs (1/4 inch (6.3 mm) Tip-Ring-Sleeve outputs) to the L1 systems.



Add a couple of F1 Model 812 systems (F1 Subwoofers optional)

  • This will give you more overall volume - especially on the dance floor
  • The sound will be loud on the stage and fall off (not drastically) as you move farther back
  • The mid-high frequences will be heard throughout the room
  • People who prefer a lower volume won't be able to escape the loudness
  • Main sound output
    Connect the T8S Main Left/Right Outputs (1/4 inch (6.3 mm) Tip-Ring-Sleeve outputs OR XLR) to the F1 Model 812 systems
  • Monitoring
    Connect the T8S Aux 1 Output to the L1 behind the band



What do you think?

ST




Keywords: raked seating

Highlighted
Professional Legend
  • 1412
  • 48121
  • 1
Registered since

May 11, 2020

Re: Mixing L1 and F1 speakers for live performance

Hi h2oStreet,

Here are some notes to go with my post above.

Rent another L1 (two total) and put them both behind the band

T8S to L1 Model II

Add a couple of F1 Model 812 systems (F1 Subwoofers optional)

T8S XLR Outputs to two F1 Model 812 systems

T8S Aux Output

ST

Highlighted
Member
  • 2
  • 8
  • 0
Registered since

Apr 29, 2019

Re: Mixing L1 and F1 speakers for live performance

ST posted:

Hi h2oStreet,

Thanks for the added information and pictures.

Here is why I asked these questions.

This is a non-scientific illustration of what you expect.

The L1 Model II is at the far right.

I've shown the projection of the Cylindrical Radiator® (the tower) in the blue zone.  

People in the blue zone will hear the L1.

People above the blue zone will hear too, but the mid-high frequencies may be muffled.

It's hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like the upper rows may not hear the sound clearly.  If you were expecting a full house, this could be a problem - one you could solve with Bose F1 Model 812 systems because you can direct sound upward.



h2oStreet posted:

Hi  ST,  Nice to meet you too! As you requested, I have added a plan view of the room and 2 pics. 

One from the top of the last row of seats facing the stage area and the other from the stage to the raised seating.  The stage area is level with the floor (for max accessibility) There are 15 rows of seating.   The flat area in front of the raised seats is for floor level chairs and dancing.... we hope.   The max capacity is 400 not 350.  Although we expect around 250-300.   Please let me know what set up would work best and how to connect the 3 speaker sets (2F1s and the L1M2/B2) to the T8s.  

We are a 4 piece blues/blues rock band:

4 vocals, keys, accordion, drum kick/overheads.  We can either have the bass and the electric guitar to the air.  Alternatively we can mic the guitar and DI the bass but would need to add our T1 back in to accomplish this. Thanks for all your help with this. 

You have a couple of options here:

Add another L1 (two total) and put them both behind the band

  • This will be familiar in terms of sound and setup
  • This will give you a consistent sound level until you get above the blue zone in the illustration. Above that, the mid-high frequencies may be muffled.
  • People will have the option to move up to the quieter area in the higher rows
  • Main sound and monitoring
    Connect the T8S Main Left/Right Outputs (1/4 inch (6.3 mm) Tip-Ring-Sleeve outputs) to the L1 systems.



Add a couple of F1 Model 812 systems (F1 Subwoofers optional)

  • This will give you more overall volume - especially on the dance floor
  • The sound will be loud on the stage and fall off (not drastically) as you move farther back
  • The mid-high frequences will be heard throughout the room
  • People who prefer a lower volume won't be able to escape the loudness
  • Main sound output
    Connect the T8S Main Left/Right Outputs (1/4 inch (6.3 mm) Tip-Ring-Sleeve outputs OR XLR) to the F1 Model 812 systems
  • Monitoring
    Connect the T8S Aux 1 Output to the L1 behind the band



What do you think?

ST

That is perfect on all counts.  Thank you for such a complete answer.  I will confer with my band mates to see what kind of house we anticipate and go from there.  If we play a similar venue or larger venue now know how to configure our BOSE gear and any rental gear. 

Thank you again

Highlighted
Member
  • 2
  • 8
  • 0
Registered since

Apr 29, 2019

Re: Mixing L1 and F1 speakers for live performance

Thank you for the connection diagrams.  Very very useful. Cheers!