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Oct 11, 2016

Model II for Karaoke or two Compacts

New discussion for dfwhoot.

Previously in One L1 Compact vs. Two
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dfwhoot
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Mar 24, 2009

Re: Model II for Karaoke or two Compacts

Concerning volumn. I have a L1-Model II with two base units and my concern is having to crank the volumn enough without clipping going on. I run a Karaoke show and the volumn is on the loud side. I'm just wondering if with an Compact, or Model I , running stereo, I could reduce the overall volumn overall. How would I need to space them out to be most effective.
My set up is; Eurorack 8 channel board with the Karaoke and CD player , main out to channel 4 on the tone matrix. Channel 1,2,3, I have vocal mics.

jerl
Any additional info. would be great.
ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

Re: Model II for Karaoke or two Compacts

Hi jerl,

Your Model II projects sound more effectively over distance than the Compact. That is... the sound drops off more slowly as you get farther away from a Model II than a Compact ¹.

Put another way... if you can hear a Compact and Model II at the same volume at say, 75 feet, the volume for the Compact will have to be higher on the stage than the Model II.

If you need less volume at a distance you can turn down the system (either one), but if you need more, your Model II will can project sound effectively at a greater distance than the Compact.

Another thought: The difference in volume between near and far away will be more noticeable with a Compact. That is you can get them sounding loud close up, but they don't carry as far. So if your issue is that the Model II is too loud far away, but you need to keep the volume up, when you are closer to it, then the Compact might solve the problem.

Clipping
You mentioned clipping. You should be able to get much louder without clipping with your Model II than the Compact. (estimated 6-9 dB SPL more with the Model II than the Compact).

Spacing for Stereo
For any of the L1® Systems, you probably want at least 10 feet between the L1®s for stereo. You can go wider, much wider if you want.


Did that help?




¹
quote:
Originally posted by Neil-at-Bose:
The L1 Compact produces approximately 6-9 dB less overall output than that of the L1 model I or L1 model II system. This is directly attributed to the fact that the L1 Compacts loudspeaker array is only a fraction of the size, therefore sound drops off more quickly with distance than that of the L1 model or model II system. The horizontal coverage of all systems up close is very similiar.


Original Post
ST - Pro
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Re: Model II for Karaoke or two Compacts

Hi jerl,

Please tell us about the size and shape of the room where you are doing your karaoke show.

When you talk about the overall volume seeming loud, where in the room are you experiencing that? Near the stage? At the back of the room, at the sides?

I looked back over your previous posts and I see that you are using a T1®. You also mentioned using an extension speaker and a mixer. Are you still doing that? If so can you tell us about the make and model of the extension speaker and the mixer?

Thank you.
dfwhoot
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Re: Model II for Karaoke or two Compacts

Thanks ST, No I am not using and ex. speaker. tried it once but was not happy. The room is a narrow , long room with lots of glass. Volumn on stage is loud and dies off toward the rear. People complain the vocals are not coming out but if I increase vocal volumn, feedback and clipping starts.I'm using a eurorack mixer, in which the karaoke machine and cd player runs through with the main out to channel 4. channel 1,2,3, on the tone matrix are vocal mics.
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Re: Model II for Karaoke or two Compacts

Hi jerl,

IF you are not getting sufficient gain before feedback on vocal microphones, especially in a karaoke environment - the first place I'd look is microphone technique.

See: Microphone Feedback in the wiki.

I also know that working with people unaccustomed to singing live, it can be a real challenge to get them to eat the mic.

How long is the room?

You could try adding an L1® Compact part-way down the length of the room. You would have to experiment with the placement to get it right. But this should allow you to turn down the overall volume on the stage, and let the Compact serve the back portion of the room.

The connections would be super simple here. Just run a line out from the T1® Master (¼ inch jack) and that will have the same mix as the Model II Power Stand. This line goes to the Compact Channel 2 input.

You would have to fine-tune the volume for the Compact - on the Compact Channel 2 Volume.

That actually makes sense because you want to set the volume for the Compact at the back, while you can here what is going out.

You could also use the T1® Aux Output - but you would not have any reverb for the vocals (out of Aux).
jdbassentertain
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Re: Model II for Karaoke or two Compacts

Two recomondations if you decide to change the mic you are using. 1st my new favorite mic the Heil Fin & second AKG D5 either in cordless or wired. Both mics offer a huge amount of gain before feedback. My personal favorite is the Fin. It's one of two Vintage style mics, in Heils Deco line. It makes the karaoke performers sound awesome-like thay are a part of the music- like it's a recording. It's hard to explain, but singers love the effect. Four out of five prefer it over my corless D5's. That being said the AKG D5 would be my second favorite because it have a very clear tone & it come as a cordless mic in the AKG WMS 450 set. This ofcoarse adds the convenience of not needing a stand & cord but I just love to sing on that Fin!

As for 2 Compacts vs a Mod. II, I'd say a Mod. II I'm not a big fan of the dual Compact idea. I think if you need more volume don't add more of the same- upgrade. Then use the Compact for smaller shows & for bigger shows use the L1 Mod.II/1 with the compact being used as a monitor speaker for the singer. Just a few ideas for you.
dfwhoot
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Mar 24, 2009

Re: Model II for Karaoke or two Compacts

Thanks All,
I guess my main idea for writing is that I love the L1 Model II so much , I was trying to come up with a justified reason to add another unit , either a compact, Model I , or another II.
I do perform at other venues of various sizes and up to five piece musicians.
I know at karaoke you get shouters and whisperers and that's hard to control. I am using sm58's, chord and chordless and they work fine, but will consider the others mentioned.

Jerl
packman
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Re: Model II for Karaoke or two Compacts

I use the VOCOPRO UHF 5800 cordless mics. Plug them into my T1 and they are awesome.