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May 2, 2014

PLEASE HELP!! ANYONE...I'M AT WITS END

I have been an L1 Model II user for the last 5 years.  For 3 1/2 years my sound was amazing and I couldn't have been happier.  No issues. Eq'ing was a breeze and I barely touched it at many many venues other than like a slight reduction of bass at times with minimal treble increases.  Punchy with clarity!  Minimal feedback and quick to solve if there ever was any.  Then 1.5 years ago life changed OR rather the sound changed for the WORSE.  Overloading, tons of feedback; Frequency cut outs are now ridiculous, to the point where i have to power down the entire system after a song and hope and pray that it works on reboot.  Often times the guitar sounds shrill and missing frequencies on reboot.  I THOUGHT IT WAS MY $3000 TAYLOR that was the issue so I got rid of it immediately and upgraded to a brand new 2017, $5000 Taylor.  I use a Peterman stomper pedal board (kick drum and snare sounds).  That used to sound amazing and then junk.  Bought a new one of those as well.  Things have only gotten worse since and no new gear purchase has solved it.  I have literally REPLACED EVERY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT I OWN TO DATE.  The entire L1 system piece by piece; from the power stand to the tower to a B2 Bass cab two weeks ago, a new T1 Tonematch and I even just bought the new T8S!!!  Each time thinking i had finally replaced the offending piece of gear, but NOOOOO.  Overloading and Issue after issue and never a solution at any turn.  PLAYING THE SAME VENUES where it once sounded amazing and effortless.  In utter disbelief I have now spent well over $12,000 on ALL new gear (from replacement L1 parts, to my guitar, to a new TC Helicon Voicelive, all new Mogami Cables, new tuner, new pedals, Furman power conditioner, Walrus audio power supply etc.  I'm ready to pull my hair out!  Tonight i played a wedding with 100% all new gear and it was the worst experience i've had as a musician.  Feedback, cut outs like crazy.  reBoots, overloading, missing frequencies.  Nothing like it used to be and i've only gotten better at doing sound.  I have invested so much money into chasing how i used to sound that i don't know what is left to do at this point.  As a final gasp I'm almost ready to purchase one F1 system and use that behind myself just to see if the overloading stops.  I find myself apologizing and explaining myself after sets which is INSANE.  As a full time touring musician LIVE GIGS ARE everything to me and they are no longer fun.  As i set up at each gig I only think about what problems will occur for me that night .  Sadly it might be the end of the road for Bose and I.  I know how good it once sounded but i don't know where to turn at this point AND throwing dollar after dollar is exhausting and infuriating!  Has Anyone had an experience like mine??????!!!  Any ideas!>!> Sorry for the long post but as you can tell i'm distraught and straight up defeated.  I've worked too hard and have spent too much money to have to deal with this.  Again, all my equipment is 100% brand new within the last month.  

Formerly Elated Bose owner

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May 8, 2018

Re: PLEASE HELP!! ANYONE...I'M AT WITS END

I have the same Bose equipment as you, and had a lot of Bose before.

- Does everything sound like **** or is it just the guitar?

- What is feed backing, the subwoofer or the tower speakers?

- Does it sound bad if you play mp3 direct to the analog input in the foot stand?
(No other sources between.)Does this sound ok, then its not the speakers.

- Have you tried to connect the guitar without any pedals etc between the T1 mixer and the guitar? And bypass all settings on that channel? Sound ok or not?

- Have you tried to take it to a music store and compare it to a another system?

- Wich voicelive pedal do you have? I had two and one (can't recall the name, a blue single pedal) didn't go well with the Bose, it easily feedback and sounded thin. The other Voicelive Acoustic sounded good, but you have to go easy on the settings. I didn't use any of the settings for the acoustic just went trough. The best acoustic guitar tone I get with my Martin with K&K pickps (same for all guitar actually I've tried) is to choose the Acoustic Flat setting. And nearly any eq at all. Just fine-tuning. And same for the vocal. Straight to the T1. The Shure Beta58 setting, standard medium compression, a little medium reverb, almost no eq and is sounds great every time.

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May 11, 2020

Re: PLEASE HELP!! ANYONE...I'M AT WITS END

Hi Trav12,

This sounds like a terrible experience.

Are you working with a Bose dealer or Bose Support?

Is your system dropping out (sound stops) while you are performing? If so, then the two most likely causes are 

  1. Bad AC power
    • Have you tried a different power supply or just an ordinary power bar?
  2. Bad bass module cable
    • This can also cause problems with the EQ for the L1®


ST

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Re: PLEASE HELP!! ANYONE...I'M AT WITS END

The Bose L1 System is just a PA, like any other in most ways and sounds good without any setting adjustments in most scenarios. It doesn't suddenly start sounding like **** and it's likely not your instruments or other gear that is causing the problems, it's most likely to be you.
Understanding of Gain Structure is probably the most important thing any user should have and that applies to the Bose systems in the same way as any other PA, if you do not carry out the Gain Staging procedure correctly (there are plenty of posts here and in the WIKI on how to do it if you are unsure) you will get the problems you are describing with any system.
If you are competent in this area and have the Gain Structure setup correctly with you instruments and other outboard equipment then you should look at the way you have it all connected, the levels you play at, the venue and positioning of all components.
There is a limit to what you can achieve with any PA system and even with correct gain etc there comes a point when you cannot play any louder without running into feedback, that is the time to turn it down.
If you have set the Gain levels correctly throughout your setup and are still getting problems then look at your other settings (EQ etc), start off with everything flat and only adjust what you need slightly to get the sound you want.
Without more detail on how you are connecting all your gear and the settings you are using we cannot give much more advice.

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May 5, 2018

Re: PLEASE HELP!! ANYONE...I'M AT WITS END

I’m usually a proponent of the simplest solution first. While changing all this gear out, did you stop to try new cables? (Especially power cords and surge protector/extension if applicable?

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Re: PLEASE HELP!! ANYONE...I'M AT WITS END

Hi there !

The type of problems you are reporting sound extreme - and should be easy enough to pin-point where the problem is coming from, by a process of elimination - eg. finding first WHAT components you think ARE working correctly, until you find the problem area.

It seems to me that you have been jumping far too easily into buying  expensive gear without first trying to find the problem - and multiple times at that. It strikes me that jumpy nature may just not have enough patience to find the real problem. It also makes me wonder if the problem is the way you have everything set up - and possibly far too complex a set-up.
Strip it down to bare bones first and test the Bose system with just a microphone. Then just a guitar (no effects, just the guitar straight into the Tonematch), and at low volumes AND in your home, somewhere away from fluorescent tube lights too.
I have had my L1mk2 for 9yrs now and never had the sorts of problems you are describing - and we use a LOT of different gear through our Bose L1mk2, with two B1's and 2 T1's.
I half expect, as Eric'sson has suggested, that perhaps your gain staging has gone all wrong. Might have been pretty much perfect during the period you were happy with your set-up.
Then, somehow, those Gain/Trim pots have been altered without you knowing (probably turned up too high) and that has caused all sorts of issues.

So, set up your Bose tower and B1(s) - making sure the B1(s) are connected properly - plug in and twist until it clicks and locks fully. You'll know when you have them on correctly as they are difficult to unplug again !!
I have had horrible thin sound with my Bose set-up WHEN the B1's were not connected correctly.

Now, turn all the EQ settings on your T1 to zero (or even quicker/better, to Bypass, as this will not change your settings), or start a new "Scene" so you don't risk ruining you usual settings.
Ooh, that brings me on another question - could your saved "Scene" (if you have one) have been changed to a different saved scene, or an unused one with no settings saved on it ?

Plug in a microphone and check the Trim pot LED (even with the master volume turned way down). IS the LED red ? You want it green almost all the time but only v slight occasional flickers of orange or red when really screaming into the mic.
Same again with your guitar (direct into the Bose T1). Strum as hard as you can - is the Trim LED going red ?). Now try the guitar with your effects unit. Is the trim LED going red.
Red is not good - turn that Trim pot down until the light is green almost all the time when playing. Do you hit a pedal to boost your volume for a solo or something ? How does that Trim behave now ? If red, you still have the trim pot set too high.
Maybe the gain/master volume on your effects unit has been radically changed accidentally ?

Lots of possible reasons for things to sound bad WITHOUT any equipment being faulty. You need to take the time to check all this out BEFORE you go wild spending again !!!

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Nov 15, 2018

Re: PLEASE HELP!! ANYONE...I'M AT WITS END

Sounds like you are just possessed with demons and need an exorcist. Here’s another wild *** guess though. Check the Taylor pickups to make sure the 3 screws in the saddle are adjusted. You can literally dial feedback up up and down turning those screws. 

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Re: PLEASE HELP!! ANYONE...I'M AT WITS END

Andy posted:

I’m usually a proponent of the simplest solution first. While changing all this gear out, did you stop to try new cables? (Especially power cords and surge protector/extension if applicable?

Hi ALL and THANKS to everyone for the input.

Here's a more in-depth look into my situation and why I'm losing it ha.  Again, I have been a Bose L1 owner for 5 years (3.5 of those trouble free).  I perform over 200 shows a year and I am well educated in the areas of sound design, gain structure, and EQ.  I am also very studied and practiced with using my T1 mixer and all its components for many years.  And lastly I certainly didn't just jump into replacing equipment without doing ALL POSSIBLE Trouble shooting first.  I have spent so much time trouble shooting, setting the system up in my home studio.  Endless Days upon days upon days.  

As this has been an on-going situation for well over a year I have tried EVERYTHING trouble shooting wise and had started from the very basics to now the extreme.  In the beginning, of course I figured it was just a BAD CABLE OR CONNECTION as is generally the case.  I bought a cable tester and then just replaced all the cables to be sure that wasn't the issue (instrument, mic and all Bose cables including the B2 BASS CABLE and T1 POWER STAND CONNECTOR.)  

When that didn't solve it i then I stripped off all of my guitar pedals i had used one by one. (Phaser, Octave pedal, Tuner, EQ, Chorus) .  Now in the chain I'm using JUST a brand new BOSS WAZA TUNER and a brand new RADIAL J48 DI BOX with my guitar.  I've had These 2 pedals for just a couple weeks.  *Let me reiterate that for 3.5 years my sound was glorious WITH all those extra pedals hooked up, no drop outs, missing frequencies or overloading.

From there I assumed it had to be my guitar electronics since guitar drop out, missing frequencies etc. seemed to be my biggest issue/concern.  Again this was never an issue for over 3 years.  I bought a NEW TAYLOR (which i certainly don't regret) but the Problems continued. 

At this point I'm thinking:  "I have all new cables, a new guitar, and problem NOT solved.  It has to be a Bose component (either the tower, power stand or B2 sub)"  As BOSE suggested first, I replaced the power stand with a brand new one.  When that didn't solve it I replaced the tower speakers and then the B2 cab, and finally the T1 Tonematch.  So my L1 system is now COMPLETELY REPLACED AND NEW.

Equipment replacing had just snowballed at that point when a solution had not been found.  I went from one piece to the next thinking "ok it HAS to be this, it HAS to be that." I HAVE SINCE replaced my Shure Beta58 Mic, TC Helicon Voicelive 3 pedal, any and all power cords, and have also added a Furman power conditioner and CLEAN power brick - Walrus Audio Aetos just for good measure and to check off all my boxes of what it COULD possibly be.  

 

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Re: PLEASE HELP!! ANYONE...I'M AT WITS END

snakehips posted:
FCBlues posted:

Sounds like you are just possessed with demons and need an exorcist. Here’s another wild *** guess though. Check the Taylor pickups to make sure the 3 screws in the saddle are adjusted. You can literally dial feedback up up and down turning those screws. 

I'll check that out thanks

 

 

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Re: PLEASE HELP!! ANYONE...I'M AT WITS END

Eric'sson posted:

The Bose L1 System is just a PA, like any other in most ways and sounds good without any setting adjustments in most scenarios. It doesn't suddenly start sounding like **** and it's likely not your instruments or other gear that is causing the problems, it's most likely to be you.
Understanding of Gain Structure is probably the most important thing any user should have and that applies to the Bose systems in the same way as any other PA, if you do not carry out the Gain Staging procedure correctly (there are plenty of posts here and in the WIKI on how to do it if you are unsure) you will get the problems you are describing with any system.
If you are competent in this area and have the Gain Structure setup correctly with you instruments and other outboard equipment then you should look at the way you have it all connected, the levels you play at, the venue and positioning of all components.
There is a limit to what you can achieve with any PA system and even with correct gain etc there comes a point when you cannot play any louder without running into feedback, that is the time to turn it down.
If you have set the Gain levels correctly throughout your setup and are still getting problems then look at your other settings (EQ etc), start off with everything flat and only adjust what you need slightly to get the sound you want.
Without more detail on how you are connecting all your gear and the settings you are using we cannot give much more advice.

Hi ALL and THANKS to everyone for the input.

Here's a more in-depth look into my situation and why I'm losing it ha.  Again, I have been a Bose L1 owner for 5 years (3.5 of those trouble free).  I perform over 200 shows a year and I am well educated in the areas of sound design, gain structure, and EQ.  I am also very studied and practiced with using my T1 mixer and all its components for many years.  And lastly I certainly didn't just jump into replacing equipment without doing ALL POSSIBLE Trouble shooting first.  I have spent so much time trouble shooting, setting the system up in my home studio.  Endless Days upon days upon days.  

As this has been an on-going situation for well over a year I have tried EVERYTHING trouble shooting wise and had started from the very basics to now the extreme.  In the beginning, of course I figured it was just a BAD CABLE OR CONNECTION as is generally the case.  I bought a cable tester and then just replaced all the cables to be sure that wasn't the issue (instrument, mic and all Bose cables including the B2 BASS CABLE and T1 POWER STAND CONNECTOR.)  

When that didn't solve it i then I stripped off all of my guitar pedals i had used one by one. (Phaser, Octave pedal, Tuner, EQ, Chorus) .  Now in the chain I'm using JUST a brand new BOSS WAZA TUNER and a brand new RADIAL J48 DI BOX with my guitar.  I've had These 2 pedals for just a couple weeks.  *Let me reiterate that for 3.5 years my sound was glorious WITH all those extra pedals hooked up, no drop outs, missing frequencies or overloading.

From there I assumed it had to be my guitar electronics since guitar drop out, missing frequencies etc. seemed to be my biggest issue/concern.  Again this was never an issue for over 3 years.  I bought a NEW TAYLOR (which i certainly don't regret) but the Problems continued. 

At this point I'm thinking:  "I have all new cables, a new guitar, and problem NOT solved.  It has to be a Bose component (either the tower, power stand or B2 sub)"  As BOSE suggested first, I replaced the power stand with a brand new one.  When that didn't solve it I replaced the tower speakers and then the B2 cab, and finally the T1 Tonematch.  So my L1 system is now COMPLETELY REPLACED AND NEW.

Equipment replacing had just snowballed at that point when a solution had not been found.  I went from one piece to the next thinking "ok it HAS to be this, it HAS to be that." I HAVE SINCE replaced my Shure Beta58 Mic, TC Helicon Voicelive 3 pedal, any and all power cords, and have also added a Furman power conditioner and CLEAN power brick - Walrus Audio Aetos just for good measure and to check off all my boxes of what it COULD possibly be.