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bigear1
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Apr 30, 2009

Presets / Micophone for soft female voice

Hi, I have just bought an L1 Model 1 system with a single bass module (without the Tonematch engine) for my wife - hoping to bring out the amazing nuances and expression in her soft voice. The difficulties I am having are:

1. Using an ElectroVoice ND367S mic (apparently reccommended for the female voice)the nuances at low frequencies come out well, but so does the "p" sounds and handling noise, plus there is unacceptable feedbcak when she hits the high notes. Even when standing 10 feet from the speakers. This mic seems too sensitive.
2. Using a Senheisser E840 vocal mic most of these problems are gone but the lower frequency soft notes do not come out as well.

Any suggestions / presets / tricks / microphone reccomendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
16 REPLIES 16
Ken-at-Bose
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Oct 13, 2003

Re: Presets / Micophone for soft female voice

Hello bigear,

It would be helpful if you tell us a little more about your wife's microphone technique.

Most importantly, how close is she to the microphone when she wants to be her loudest in the audience? We coach all singers to have their lips touching the windscreen at such moments. There are two big reasons:

1. You will have the least feedback issues.

2. The ToneMatch presets are "voiced" (optimized) for close mic work.

In addition, please take a look at this article on mic feedback in the L1 Wiki. It's intended to be a good primer on the subject.

I'll look for your reply and we'll see if together we can get things improved. I'm confident.

With best regards,

Ken



edit: repaired link
bigear1
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Apr 30, 2009

Re: Presets / Micophone for soft female voice

Hi Ken,

Thanks for your prompt reply. She does tend to sing with the mic an inch or two away from her lips. Any closer accentuates the "p" sounds and breathing sounds with the EV ND367 mic, not so much with the Senheisser. But then we are trying this out in our basement without accompanying music.

I'll have her try out your suggestions and get back to you. Its good to have expert advice so promptly, appreciate your help!

quote:
Originally posted by Ken-at-Bose:
Hello bigear,

It would be helpful if you tell us a little more about your wife's microphone technique.

Most importantly, how close is she to the microphone when she wants to be her loudest in the audience? We coach all singers to have their lips touching the windscreen at such moments. There are two big reasons:

1. You will have the least feedback issues.

2. The ToneMatch presets are "voiced" (optimized) for close mic work.

In addition, please take a look at this http://toonz.ca/bose/wiki/index.php?title=Microphone_Feedback in the L1 Wiki. It's intended to be a good primer on the subject.

I'll look for your reply and we'll see if together we can get things improved. I'm confident.

With best regards,

Ken
Ken-at-Bose
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Oct 13, 2003

Re: Presets / Micophone for soft female voice

Hi bigear,

Some singers, and talkers, avoid the popping sound of microphones that comes from plosives like "P" and "B" (see wikipedia article on this subject) by holding the microphone under instead of into their mouths and thereby "blowing over" the windscreen instead of into it.

Other singers/talkers modify how they produce plosives in order to change the "wind direction" and reduce mic noise. This can be hard and can really get in the way of a well-established singing technique.

Also, you are right to observe that different microphones have very different resistance to popping from plosives. This has mostly to do with how their windscreens are designed. You're smart to experiment with several designs. One will work.

Definitely get her in close to that windscreen. The difference between "a few inches" and right on the windscreen can mean literally 20 dB of feedback-free gain!

We look forward to your next report and hope for progress.

Ken
Mark-at-Bose
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May 13, 2018

Re: Presets / Micophone for soft female voice

Hi bigear,
Here is a post from another forum member who finds that touching the lips to the mic screen helps with plosives.

quote:
Originally posted by StuartD:
Hi:
quote:
"Anyone have a suggestion on not getting the "P" & "T" sounds?"

I use the Crown CM311A microphone and find it to be plosive-free as long as your lips are (at least lightly) touching the foam screen. If there is even a small gap between the microphone screen and my lips I often experience the plosive nuisance.

Eliminating the gap keeps the plosives at bay.

...

Stu
Ken-at-Bose
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Oct 13, 2003

Re: Presets / Micophone for soft female voice

Hi bigear,

I was reminded by one of the other operators of something I had stupidly forgotten, and I think it could be really valuable to your situation.

One of the most active members of this community and a superb singer and guitar player gave a talk at the L1 Conference in Cuchara CO on vocal technique.

You can read the Wiki Article he wrote on this subject which includes video.

One of the things Tom Munch demonstrated in his talk is that puff noise from plosives actually GOES DOWN when you get REALLY close to the mic (lips touching the windscreen). We were all quite flabbergasted by this but it was undeniable.

Tom may pipe in here as a true expert on this subject.

Ken
Tom Munch
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Jun 30, 2004

Re: Presets / Micophone for soft female voice

I don't know about being a true expert - thanks, Ken - but I do have a lot of experience that may be worth something.

Try getting right on the windscreen. The screen actually diffracts the pop if you're right on it as you hit the plosive consonant. Try it - it really works. If you have a very old mic where the windscreen material has deteriorated inside the screen, then you may need a new windscreen or foam insert. But this technique has worked on most handheld mics I have used.

If you are using a Shure SM57 or condenser mic without a ball-type windscreen then you may have to turn your head slightly on plosive consonants as Ken stated above.

You can see the part in the video from the Cuchara Users Conference where I demonstrate the technique on the screen for reducing plosives. It's at about the end of the vocal part of the presentation I believe.

Tom
Tom Munch
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Re: Presets / Micophone for soft female voice

I was wrong - it's about 1/3 of the way through the video.
AJ CASALI
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Mar 10, 2020

Re: Presets / Micophone for soft female voice

quote:
ND367S

quote:
Using an ElectroVoice ND367S mic (apparently reccommended for the female voice)the nuances at low frequencies come out well, but so does the "p" sounds and handling noise, plus there is unacceptable feedbcak when she hits the high notes


Hi Bigear!

My wife ( Carla) sings through the ND367s and loves the mic but she did have the same problem of "popping". I am a mic eater and rarely pop my p's and never really understood why until I viewed Tom Munch's video on mic technique. Carla now sings with her lips slightly brushing the windscreen or maybe half inch away from it and has greatly reduced the pops. Trying to form your lips to avoid popping lakes practice and can interfere with a singes "natural" phrasing and "feeling" if they have to "think" about what they are doing. In the end if all fails...."throw a windscreen" on the mic. ( No it's not cheating. I never heard an audience scream," He or she has to use a windscreen! Also, check your eq setting and gain staging and placement of your tower for the feedback issues. It's a great mic, work with it. Good luck and good singing!

AJ & Carla
Joelheck
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Jul 16, 2007

Re: Presets / Micophone for soft female voice

quote:
In the end if all fails...."throw a windscreen" on the mic. ( No it's not cheating. I never heard an audience scream," He or she has to use a windscreen!


Hi AJ,

Funny thing, I have gotten so used to Windscreens, I usually put them on as a force of habit.

In the old mixer days, it helped the sound man ID which mike was which by color of the screen. We liked Red and Green for the holidays, otherwise Black, Yellow or Red.
Doing a lot of outdoor gig's, it helps a bit with Wind noise, we usually never had much of a problem with "P's or Pops".
It's at least a minor protection, if the Mic gets dropped.
I've seen some (unconscious, unaware, inconsiderate, take your pick)people, talk, sing whatever into the Mic, while or after eating something, spraying their junk onto the Windscreen (luckily you can wash them, but I carry spares anyway and wipe the actual Mic with alcohol wipes before using it again myself), unfortunately these people just don't care or recognize the importance of something you as a performer have up to your mouth for several hours.

The only person I ever heard complain about the screens, should not be singing any way.
Windscreens do not cause "Pitch" issues.

I've done a number of live tests with audience members and friends. None of them felt there was any noticeable difference with Billie or I singing with or without a filter. I believe we mentaly/vocally adjust to the difference automaticlly/immediately.