ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

S1 Pro Volume Controls - Why do I have to turn up the microphone higher than guitar?

Hi Everyone,

I'm starting a new discussion to provide the Bose reply to this question

Question: Why do I have to turn up the microphone higher than guitar?

Answer: The output level of the guitar is louder than the output level of the microphone. That's why we have to turn up the microphone higher.


This is how my S1 Pro looks most of the time. The microphone is connected to channel 1 and the guitar is connected to channel 2. 

More information:

There’s been a lot of discussion here lately about

  • Unity gain
  • The center détente is unity
  • Not enough reaction to the volume controls below unity
  • Not enough headroom when the volume control (for a microphone) is at 3:00 o’clock or greater

 

 Let me address these points.

The volume controls are trim controls:

  • Note how quiet the S1 Pro is when there’s no input source and the volume, is all the way up – The volume controls are trim not preamp/gain controls
  • The concept of unity gain does not apply
  • The concept of headroom doesn’t apply
  • The center détente is a convenient point of reference, especially when you can't see the controls well at a gig

 

The power amps are running at full volume

  • When you turn the volume controls all the way up, you have reached the maximum volume the S1 Pro is capable of producing for that source
  • Note the clip lights. If you see red, turn down to avoid distortion. You have reached the maximum usable volume just below clipping

 

We hit maximum usable volume for an input is just before the clip lights come on. With a guitar with a preamp, that might be at 12:00 o’clock compared to a microphone at 3:00-4:00 o’clock.  There’s no dysfunction here. It’s a reflection that the output level of the guitar is higher than the microphone.

ST

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Rick_W
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Mar 19, 2018

Re: S1 Pro Volume Controls - Why do I have to turn up the microphone higher than guitar?

I figured that the volume was due to output levels. It hasn't been a problem yet. I just didn't know if the volume was supposed to be almost non existant and then jump up suddenly at midpoint. If it is normal, that is fine. Making sure there wasn't a defect.

ccc1
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Mar 29, 2018

Re: S1 Pro Volume Controls - Why do I have to turn up the microphone higher than guitar?

ST posted:

Hi Everyone,

I'm starting a new discussion to provide the Bose reply to this question

Question: Why do I have to turn up the microphone higher than guitar?

Answer: The output level of the guitar is louder than the output level of the microphone. That's why we have to turn up the microphone higher.

? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? 



Now what people seem to think is this is a comparison of THE volume of mic to THE volume of guitar. This is NOT A COMPARISON at all, the instrument volume knob works as it should.

We have started a new discussion for your question.

S1 Pro - Microphone volume between 0 and 12:00 o'clock

ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

Re: S1 Pro Volume Controls - Why do I have to turn up the microphone higher than guitar?

Hi Rick W

Rick W posted:

I figured that the volume was due to output levels.

Yes.

It hasn't been a problem yet. I just didn't know if the volume was supposed to be almost non existant and then jump up suddenly at midpoint. If it is normal, that is fine. Making sure there wasn't a defect.

Please see this new discussion about the volume.

S1 Pro - Microphone volume between 0 and 12:00 o'clock

Cheers,

ST

ccc1
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Mar 29, 2018

Re: S1 Pro Volume Controls - Why do I have to turn up the microphone higher than guitar?

 "For people who notice very little difference in volume change between 0 and 12:00 o'clock, turning up the volume at the source will give them a greater audible difference below 12:00 o'clock."

This does not apply mic pos. (SM58) tone match mic switch should compensate for low signal mics as Bose does not offer a separate boost or phantom power.

ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

Re: S1 Pro Volume Controls - Why do I have to turn up the microphone higher than guitar?

Hi ccc,

The quote above is taken out of context, and in a different discussion.

Here is my comment in its larger context. For others reading along, note that at this point, I was talking about S1 Pro channel 3.

That's not surprising. If something is too quiet to hear, twice as loud may still too quiet to hear. You can keep doing that until you can hear it and then twice as loud will be noticeable.  With a microphone (very low signal) you may not hear it at all until you get to around 11:00 o'clock when we reach the just-noticeable difference threshold. This point will vary based on the strength of the input volume.

The ideas above apply to S1 Pro channel 3 too (Bluetooth and wired connections).  For people who notice very little difference in volume change between 0 and 12:00 o'clock, turning up the volume at the source will give them a greater audible difference below 12:00 o'clock.

The larger discussion is here: S1 Pro - Microphone volume between 0 and 12:00 o'clock. And in that discussion, I explain why we have to turn a microphone higher than a line level input.

The ToneMatch switch tunes the EQ on the channel to give great results with handheld microphones. You're correct, the switch does not affect the signal level. All you have to do is turn up the volume, likely over 12:00 o'clock.

You can add your suggestions about making the ToneMatch switch boost a microphone signal, and adding phantom power to 

S1 Pro system: Feature Requests

ST

Ted1
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May 8, 2018

Re: S1 Pro Volume Controls - Why do I have to turn up the microphone higher than guitar?

I find the volume with the SM58 quite inadequate unless turned up beyond 3 o clock. If I add an impedance matching transformer it is much better. This was suggested by Shure tech support. Bose told me they test all their systems with the SM58 so it’s surprising this is an issue. I should not have to add an impedance transformer!3AB3739D-1C6C-4EE5-BD06-6387A4D78282

ccc1
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Mar 29, 2018

Re: S1 Pro Volume Controls - Why do I have to turn up the microphone higher than guitar?

Bose is using a technical means that was abandoned by some amp companies some years ago, where they used a split for low level and line level. 12 o'clock being the the mid point. Low level mics like the 58 are at a voice level at 12 o'clock. This was extremely unpopular in the past and amps in the past did away with this by master volumes, because people wanted control of their volume and always felt the unit was defective by not audible response below 12 for weak output mics. Bose needs a master volume. The 58 is a very low output mic, I solved this issue by running my mic thru a balance direct box. If you use some pre or something like voice live or a boss voice you can put your mic in the balance output and internally boost the output to get the volume to a decent level. They also have phantom power so you can use condenser mics I also use a volume pedal this allows me to set the mic and line levels and then add  the volume with my foot pedal. I personally feel this is poorly thought out for a unit used for busking or singer songwriters.  This is as simple as I can explain this without going into electronics but this was how I found a solution.  = I set my volume for the 58 and boost it thru a balance out from DI box or Boss VE-20 I use a volume pedal to then control the volume with my volume pedal.

ccc1
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Re: S1 Pro Volume Controls - Why do I have to turn up the microphone higher than guitar?

So sorry my email post from this dialog only showed your last post.

ccc1
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Re: S1 Pro Volume Controls - Why do I have to turn up the microphone higher than guitar?

Thanks for your explanation but my comment is about solving the lack of a master volume on this unit also the lack of a boost or phantom power. As I mentioned by using a pre of some sort to boost my 58's inaudibility before 11 o'clock and using a volume pedal to solve the lack of ability to set the line level of instrument and mic without repeated fiddling.  This has been a topic of discourse.  If you feel this does not apply you can delete it.