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May 16, 2019

S1 Pro with or without mixer

Hi all,

Glad to join the forum. I have just acquired a S1 Pro recently and used it to plug in my guitar, singing and some karaoke.  I owned a Roland AC 60 and Yamaha Stagepas 400i but was never happy with the output I got from both device.  The sound output from the diminutive S1 Pro really took me me by surprise and within a week, I decided to get a 2nd unit.

I have now own 2 unit and over the weekend, had used both unit a lot for Karaoke by daisy chaining the first unit to the second. To be honest, I am quite happy with the vocal output using the tonematch preset. However as I am "daisy chaining".  I get mono output from both unit. That's why I am now considering to add a small mixer Yamaha MG10XU in order to be able to output the karaoke sound in stereo. 

Just curious if anyone in the forum have experience in pairing S1 Pro to a Yamaha MG10XU mixer ? My question is ; how would the S1 Pro tonematch preset + reverb compare to an external mixer capability. Is it really worth adding an external mixer just for Karaoke-ing and stereo effect. 

Thanks for any insight.....

 

Cheers, 

 

Hendra

 

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May 11, 2020

Re: S1 Pro with or without mixer

Hi Hendra,

Welcome to the Bose Portable PA Community. I'm happy you joined us.

It's easy to connect a mixer like a Yamaha MG10XU to two S1 Pro systems.

There are lots of things to consider when it comes to stereo, but it should be relatively easy to tell if you prefer stereo or mono for your application.

Is the source for your Karaoke backing tracks stereo?

  • If it is stereo, can you run the Left output to one S1 Pro and the Right Output to the other S1 Pro?  How does that sound?
  • If it is an iOS or Android device, you can use the Bose Connect App to run the Karaoke tracks in stereo via Bluetooth. Or, just to test the sound, run any music using the Bose Connect app through an iOS or Android device.  Do you like the stereo sound enough to invest time and money to get it?


If you have a large room, how many people in the audience will listening in the stereo sweet spot between the two S1 Pro systems?

How far apart will you place the S1 Pro systems?

How big is the room?

How many people are in the room?

How many people will be singing at the same time?  If two, then I would connect one microphone to each S1 Pro. It can make for a fun and exciting show if the sounds of the vocalists are coming from the loudspeaker closest to them (not through both loudspeakers).  See Cocktail Party Effect for more about that.

Please tell us about what you're doing so we can speak more directly to what you are doing.

ST

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Re: S1 Pro with or without mixer

Hi ST, 

Thanks a lot for your feedback and great suggestion. I did a trial a while ago, streaming the stereo karaoke track through bluetooth. In deed I love the stereo effect. My current Karaoke set up is in a 4 x 7 Meter room. The S1 Pro will be positioned on a stand by around 4.5 Meter apart. In most use case will be my wife and myself with a a couple of friend (max total of 10 people) seated in between  both speakers. 

My current set-up during Karaoke time is connecting via cables as follow (bluetooth audio is not an option as I wont allow me to do key changes) : 

Sound output through YouTube on Smart TV(or Karaoke machine) --> Key Changer Mixer --> 2 daisy chained Bose S1 Pro

If I am to take your suggestion and run a cable from the Key Changer Mixer RCA; Left output to the S1 Pro Unit 1 and Right output to S1 Pro Unit 2 and then plug my (wireless) microphone to S1 Pro Unit 1, surely the vocal part will only be heard on the Unit 1. If I need the vocal to come out from both speaker, I would need to daisy chain both unit. The question is, will I cancel out the stereo effect output from the RCA by doing this? Will I be risking damaging the unit (need to make sure before I try this approach) as there will conflicting audio signal; one from the RCA and the other from daisy chaining??

Let me know what do think the risk is or I might be better getting an external mixer instead despite already liking the current tonematch effect.

 

PS: I might test the cocktail party effect later in the weekend as it sounds like fun....

 

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May 11, 2020

Re: S1 Pro with or without mixer

Hi Hendra,

You've given this a lot of thought and hit on all the high points. Thanks for the detailed information.

Hendra Ng posted:

Hi ST, 

Thanks a lot for your feedback and great suggestion. I did a trial a while ago, streaming the stereo karaoke track through bluetooth. In deed I love the stereo effect. My current Karaoke set up is in a 4 x 7 Meter room. The S1 Pro will be positioned on a stand by around 4.5 Meter apart. In most use case will be my wife and myself with a a couple of friend (max total of 10 people) seated in between  both speakers. 

It sounds like you are in a good room to hear the difference between stereo and mono.  However, as nice as that is, perhaps that's secondary to the people singing, and the visual and auditory fun that comes with that. In other words, the show is the singers, not the Karaoke tracks.

My current set-up during Karaoke time is connecting via cables as follow (bluetooth audio is not an option as I wont allow me to do key changes) : 

Sound output through YouTube on Smart TV(or Karaoke machine) --> Key Changer Mixer --> 2 daisy chained Bose S1 Pro

If I am to take your suggestion and run a cable from the Key Changer Mixer RCA; Left output to the S1 Pro Unit 1 and Right output to S1 Pro Unit 2 and then plug my (wireless) microphone to S1 Pro Unit 1, surely the vocal part will only be heard on the Unit 1.

You've anticipated the outcome well.

In some respects, it's better to have vocal part coming out of only one loudspeaker because it eliminates the chance of unwanted interaction when you have a mono source heard through two loudspeakers. This is less noticeable with full-range music than for vocals. (Multiple Source Interference).    

There are a couple ways to compensate for the vocal part will only be heard on the Unit 1. 

  • Move the S1 Pro systems closer together.  If everyone (ten people) are sitting between the two S1 Pro systems, maybe you don't need 4.5 meters between them. Moving the S1 Pro systems closer together will diminish the one-sidedness of the sound. 
  • Have the singer stand closer to the loudspeaker through which she is being heard.  If you have a Karaoke screen where you are displaying the words, place that closer to the second S1 Pro.  Things don't always have to be symetrical.

If I need the vocal to come out from both speaker, I would need to daisy chain both unit. The question is, will I cancel out the stereo effect output from the RCA by doing this?

Yes. You'll end up with:

S1 Pro #1

  • Vocal
  • Stereo Left side only


S1 Pro #2

  • Vocal
  • Stereo Left side
    plus
  • Stereo Right side


Will I be risking damaging the unit (need to make sure before I try this approach) as there will conflicting audio signal; one from the RCA and the other from daisy chaining??

You won't hurt anything.

Let me know what do think the risk is or I might be better getting an external mixer instead despite already liking the current tonematch effect.

PS: I might test the cocktail party effect later in the weekend as it sounds like fun....

It sounds like you have fun parties with your friends, and music is a big part of that.

Try the RCA/Stereo split with the vocals connected to only one S1 Pro. See how that feels. 

Then try adding the connection from the first S1 Pro to the second S1 Pro. You may not notice that the Left and Right signals are combined in the second S1 Pro.   People are listening to the vocals and having fun - and not listening critically for the stereo image.

You may find you can have all the fun you want without the added expense and (minor) complexity of adding a mixer.

Oh - here is another thought. Check your wireless microphone receiver. Some of them have two outputs

  • line level - often a 1/4 inch (6.3 mm) jack
  • microphone level - an XLR jack


If your wireless receiver is like this, then you can connect

  • line level - often a 1/4 inch (6.3 mm) jack to S1 Pro #1
  • microphone level - an XLR jack to S1 Pro #2


You will have to adjust the channel volumes on the S1 Pro systems to get an even output (the volumes will not look the same but that's okay).

Please come back and tell us what you decide to do, and what you hear.

Have fun.

ST

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Re: S1 Pro with or without mixer

Thanks ST for all your recommendation. I will try and look into your recommendation over the weekend. Currently travelling for works... Cheers and have a good day....

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Jun 27, 2019

Re: S1 Pro with or without mixer

I know this is a little late to the party but...I use a mixer with my 2 Bose S1 Pros. Works great. However I find the pro audio level line output, +4 I think, too hot for the Bose inputs. I have to dial back the Bose volume way down which makes the volume level touchy. It seems the bose gain range is better suited for microphone or instrument input. I run my mixer out through a Art audio reamp with variable attenuation before the runs to the Bose S1 Pro. I've also used a DI box but I like the continuously variable attenuation of the reamp box to dial in the source to the Bose. Something to think about if your mix to the Bose seems too hot. Regards.