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S1 Pros as Front of House with F1 Subwoofer

Hello ST and the Bose Community, I was able to get a test at a live gig yesterday.

VENUE: Local Winery, in the winter I play indoors and in smaller room upstairs. I would say the room is about 40 X 50 and opens up to a larger room on the side. Attentive crowd  at best although our band seems to get the crowd up and moving and there was much dancing by the end of the gig!! I have used an Model L1s with B2 many time in the past and it worked great in this room. There was about 50 or so in the room and close to 200 in adjacent rooms. I down mix to the entire PA to be heard thorough out the facility. 

SETUP:

2 S1 Pros, 1 F1 Sub, I left the F1 812s in the car just in case.

RESULTS: Filled the room wonderfully and in fact I was told to turn down a few times!!! ..I had the F1 as a sub mix on the board so I was able blend in the bottom end with the S1s nicely. 

BAND: 1 guitarist, 1 keyboardist, 1 bassist, 1 percussionist (e-kit). Three vocal mics used and a guest guitarist that sat in on a few songs.

TEST RESULTS:

The S1 Pros really delivered a very good full sound and seem to be a great fit for small rooms. I did miss a little fullness in vocal(s) as compared to the L1s although it was really nice having stereo that really came alive with some of the synth patches we have on the keys. Additionally, I was able to set them behind us and to the side with no feedback issues and mitigate the need for monitors... My keyboardist reported that he could hear himself really well, he was right next to the left side speaker.. which is another observation here, I think the L1 design intent was to have multiple ones when having multiple performers. I did not and I am certain that with a 4-5 piece band in my use case that the L1s was being used beyond its intended purpose.  

SUMMARY:

I just recently traded in my 1Ls B2 / T1 and 3 QSC k12s so that I could go all Bose (2 F1 812s/1F sub and 2 S1 Pros) with this type of equipment and upsize/downsize as needed. As I normally play with a full band/trio and seldom as just a duo or singer/songwriter, I was seeking an all Bose solution to meet this need.

The all Bose solution I am seeking is to meet the needs of a working band(4-5 piece or greater) often needing FOH reinforcement and to validate if the S1 could perform dual purpose as both a monitor for a full band or PA for smaller venues.  So far, its it seems that this set up (2 F1 812s/1F sub and 2 S1 Pros) is really promising for others looking for this type of fit!!

I know I somewhat of an adventurer as this is such a new product, would really love to hear from others also... 

My next test will be with F1 812(s) for FOH with F1 Sub and use the S1 Pros as monitors with the full band.. My practice space is to small to obtain a meaningful test for this so I will report back after the next gig. I have a heavy hitting drummer for that gig so it should be a good test.. 

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Re: S1 Pros as Front of House with F1 Subwoofer

Hi ModernVintageDC,

Thanks for trying this out and for telling us about your experience running the S1 Pros as the mains with your F1 Subwoofer.

BAND: 1 guitarist, 1 keyboardist, 1 bassist, 1 percussionist (e-kit). Three vocal mics used and a guest guitarist that sat in on a few songs.



Please tell us what you had going through the S1 Pros. 

  • Vocals
  • Keyboards
  • E-kit for percussion
  • Bass?
  • Guitar(s)?


Thanks,

ST

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Feb 6, 2018

Re: S1 Pros as Front of House with F1 Subwoofer

Hello ST,

Sure!

 

  • Vocals -  (2) SM58,  (1) Sennheiser 835
  • Keyboards - Yamaha MX61
  • E-kit for percussion - Roland
  • Bass - Active Standard Electric Bass 
  • Guitar(s)- Martin GPCPA-4 Rosewood, Fender Strat (American), Banjo, Mandolin.

**I use a Helix Line 6 and go right to the board and have patches I use as needed with snapshots. When I need to use the acoustic, I switch to the "acoustic" patch on the Helix.

Mixer Board: Presonus 16.4.2 AI series

Guest Guitarist - Used the Martin direct in to the board

All instruments mixed down at the board, the sub was on a slider to control the amount bass needed in the mix.

When using the Acoustic kit for the outdoor gigs, I normally mic the kick, snare and tom at min and sometimes OHs, for indoor at this venue, we use  a Cajone/Congos or e-Kit.

Please let me know if you have any other questions, thanks!

 

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Re: S1 Pros as Front of House with F1 Subwoofer

Hello ST and the greater community, a few more details/observations:

  • Battery Power - The gig was from 1-5 and the crowd pleaded to play a few more so we did not finish until about 5:20. No challenges at all with the battery life!
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Re: S1 Pros as Front of House with F1 Subwoofer

Where was the F1 sub placed in relation to the S1 Pros? Did you leave the eq flat on the channel of the S1 Pros or did you turn down the bass a bit? I would imagine turning down the bass would hive you more headroom...

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Re: S1 Pros as Front of House with F1 Subwoofer

Hello jdbassentertainment.com, the sub was positioned stage center were the mixer was. Yes re the eq, left it flat in addition to center/unity on the S1. I did not use the verb on the S1 as I use the mixer for FX control . Good point re the headroom, I will experiment with that.. thanks!

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Re: S1 Pros as Front of House with F1 Subwoofer

Hi JD and ModernVintageDC,

For the EQ question, I would consider running the signal source to the F1 Subwoofer and setting the EQ switch to HPF (High Pass Filter). Then take the lines out to the S1 Pros. That way, the S1 Pros will get only the signal above 100 Hz. 

ST

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Re: S1 Pros as Front of House with F1 Subwoofer

HI ST, great point and idea! I will try it both with and without and to hear the results. Makes sense to let the F1 Sub do the heavy lifting on the bottom end.

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Re: S1 Pros as Front of House with F1 Subwoofer

Hi ST and JD, I just ran some tests, here are a few points/observations:

  • Taking the sub off a separate control for me pushed me in to a continuous state of having to get up and down and lower/raise the volume on the S1 Pros to balance out the sound level(s) which reminded of why I put the sub on a separate sub mix when pairing with the S1 Pros.
  • I did notice quite a difference with the EQ setting on the sub and to my ears, it seemed to take some of the nice little fullness I like about the S1s and the ability to project very well in the lower levels. 
  • I reconnected the sub as a separate mix on the board and attempted to digitally EQ the sound while striving to appreciate the notion here that the F1 Sub is better positioned to handle the low end and to EQ accordingly....
  • The Sweet Spot for me when I applied the cutoff was around 50-60HZ.

In summary, to my ears, I think

  1. While the F1 is such a monster Sub compared to the S1, keeping a separate mix-out on the board really helps to control the SPL/Sound level difference and
  2. Running the HPF set from the 100HZ on the sub down a little further on a custom EQ to around 50-60HZ seemed sound the best.

I noticed the cut sheet for the S1 is 70HZ on the low end regarding the frequency response. Most likely the ability to get down to around 55-60@-10db for the range well is perhaps what I was missing and feel as though the S1 does a great job at. This may well explain why the S1 performs so well as a FRFR (Full Range Full Response) speaker for all of the Guitar Amp Modelers out there...I preface this all knowing that what sounds the "best" sound is both an Art and Science so I leave to others to test and try, these are the results that seemed to sound the best to me..

Thanks ST for the inspiration and encouragement to try some new things and do further testing!

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Re: S1 Pros as Front of House with F1 Subwoofer

Hi ModernVintageDC,

I had not ever expected to do this, but I just spent some time comparing the F1 Model 812 to the S1 Pro with both run through an F1 Subwoofer.

I ran the source signal to the F1 Subwoofer and Channel 1 out to F1 Model 812 and Channel 2 out to the S1 Pro.

I tried every combination I could imagine using

  • F1 Subwoofer EQ (FULL RANGE / HPF High Pass Filter)
  • F1 Model 812 EQ (FULL RANGE / WITH SUB)
  • Various settings for the F1 Model 812 array (Straight, J, Reverse-J, C)
    • I settled on C because this most closely matched the dispersion of the S1 Pro
  • Various settings with the S1 Pro volume and tone controls, but I kept the ToneMatch switch to off



Testing Conditions

I put the S1 Pro on a stand with the logo at the same height as the logo on the F1 Model 812 mounted on top of the F1 Subwoofer.

I used a Sound Pressure Level meter at 15 feet and set the volumes for both at 90 dBA SPL. 

I did the listening test with a variety of music. For Acoustic Guitar and Vocals and Classical music, the S1 Pro held up well in comparison to the F1 Model 812. When I got into more dynamic, full-range, demanding music at higher volume the F1 Model 812 did much better. That should be no surprise.

S1 Pro

For overall best sound for the S1 Pro, I did this.

  • F1 Subwoofer EQ: HPF
  • S1 Pro
    • Volume at 12:00 o'clock
    • Bass and Treble at 12:00 o'clock

I was able to get consistent 100+ dBA at 3 feet and 90 dBA at 15 feet.

When I set the F1 Subwoofer EQ to FULL RANGE, there was more bass from the S1 Pro, but as you'd expect, I saw red on the LED sooner, and when I pushed it harder, there was audible distortion.  I got more usable volume from the S1 Pro with the F1 Subwoofer EQ set to HPF.

F1 Model 812

If you've got an F1 Model 812, you know how it sounds and I'm sure you like it. It sets a very high bar for comparison.  The S1 Pro is fine up to the levels where I did my comparison, but you'll get at least another 20 dBA SPL out of the F1 Model 812.  No matter what I did with the controls, in this head-to-head comparison I preferred the sound of the F1 Model 812 but it was close.

Summary

I'm even more impressed with the S1 Pro after having done this comparison. To reset my ear, I took a break and then removed the F1 Subwoofer from the signal path. I listened to the S1 Pro and F1 Model 812 at 75 dBA at 15 feet.  At this level, both are easy to listen to for long periods.

When running a live band at a small venue, I might consider the combination of S1 Pros with an F1 Subwoofer, but if there were any chance I'd need more volume than in my tests today, I'd take the F1 Model 812s and use the S1 Pros as stage monitors.

If anyone else tries this out, please tell us what you hear. We've all got different tastes and applications.

ST

edit: I apologize. I ran these tests above with the T8S ToneMatch mixer. I realized after I posted the comments above that I had the DJ High Volume Preset set on the channel I used for the F1 Model 812. I re-ran all the tests and I have amended my comments.