T1 Output Levels to Recording

[FCBlues]

I'm having trouble adjusting the line levels to record live output levels from T-1 channels 1-3 and Aux out (for recording T-1 channel 4). I'm using a Tascam H5 ZOOM and have to carefully set the ZOom levels coming from the T-1 between 2-3 perfectly, or it ends up burying the meter loud or way too low to use. It makes good recordings when I get the levels perfectly right but it's hit or miss and really frustrating. I have to get the ZOOM line in levels from the T-1 perfect between 2 and 3 even using a -20db setting.  We have 2 Acoustic Guitars, 2 Mics, Just reverb, nothing driving high gain. The trim levels are at 50% Faders at about 50% and Master about 40%.

[Forum_Admin]

Hello, FCBlues.

I looked back over your previous posts and at the owners guide for the Tascam H5 Zoom.

I found these replies in your previous post about  T-1 Tone Match PreAmp Outs 1-3 saturating my external recording device

ST posted:

Hi FCBlues,

Thank you for joining the Bose Portable PA Community. 

The T1® Preamp Outs are Post-Trim. To lower the outputs, you can turn down the trims a bit. This will lower the input signal to channels 1,2,3 so you'll have to make up for it with the channel volume controls.  

Does that help?

ST

ad46 posted:

I had the same problem, sort of, recording with a Zoom 4Hn.  I first tried going in the headphone stereo jack, which was recommended on a video.  With that, I encountered terrible results.  Then, I tired the XLR inputs of the Zoom with a -20db Attenuator that you can get on eBay or at Amazon cheap.  Some people recommended a higher rating up to -50db but when I called Zoom, they said that the -20 would be all that I needed.  It works fine.  Also, several people said I didn't need a balanced cable, 3 leads instead of 2, but I am of the belief that anytime you can use a balance cable..do it. The tonematch accepts either and the attenuator was 3 lead so that's what I stayed with for everything else.

The only way to reduce the output levels of the T1 Preamp Outputs is to reduce the input trim settings as suggested in the first reply above.

From page 97 of the the owners guide for the Tascam H5 Zoom.

When connecting a mixer with a standard output level or +4dB, for example, you can set this unit to reduce the input signal level -20 dB.

It sounds like you are already doing using the -20 dB setting, so you may need to use an external attenuator as suggested by ad46 (second reply above).

I'm sorry. There's nothing more you can do with the T1 controls.

Bose Pro Community Admin

[FCBlues]

Thanks very much for the replies, really appreciate it. I understand what’s happening now - the trim level outputs would be out of balance and we are compensating by adjusting each channel on the way to the Master so we are hearing a balanced mix but the Zoom isn’t. 

It makes sense to turn the trim levels to each input level. We have been turning them all to 12 o’clock. I can see that would start the mix off at multiple levels. Is there any downside soundwise to setting trim levels differently across channels between say 10 and 12 o’clock as long as the signal is green? 

I would have tried this already but Im getting pushback on stage, you know how it is. 

Thanks again for the replies. 

[Forum_Admin]

Hello, FCBlues.

I have moved this discussion back to the ToneMatch mixers forum because you have already received the most feedback from other community members.

Bose Pro Community Admin 

[ST - Pro]

Hi Bruce,

FCBlues posted:

Thanks very much for the replies, really appreciate it. I understand what’s happening now - the trim level outputs would be out of balance and we are compensating by adjusting each channel on the way to the Master so we are hearing a balanced mix but the Zoom isn’t. 

We use the input trim controls to match the level of the source, (instrument, microphone) to the T1. The T1 Preamp outs are post-trim. They give you the signal immediately it has passed through the trim. No other processing (e.g. Presets, EQ, Effects, and the channel control) have been applied yet. 

It makes sense to turn the trim levels to each input level.

Yes - see T1 Gain Staging for notes and a video

We have been turning them all to 12 o’clock.

Normally you would expect the trim levels to be different for different sources. 

I can see that would start the mix off at multiple levels.

Yes!

Is there any downside soundwise to setting trim levels differently across channels between say 10 and 12 o’clock as long as the signal is green? 

No downside if the trim levels are different. You want the signals to be green, no red. And they don't have to be between 10 and 12 o'clock. If you have a guitar without a built-in preamp, you may need to set the trim higher than 12 o'clock. 

I would have tried this already but Im getting pushback on stage, you know how it is. 

Thanks again for the replies. 

After you change the trim settings, you'll have to use the T1 channel volume controls to get the stage mix you want.  This mix will not be captured by the recorder. You'll have to recreate that in whatever device or software you are using to edit the recordings.

Does that help?

ST

[FCBlues]

Thank you very much! This is very helpful.