KingBiscuit
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Mar 16, 2015

T4S Comp/Gate - can I pick more than one per channel?

So, I'm playing with the new T4 and I'd like to have a better understanding of how things work than I did with my T1.    I read the wiki for the mixer and have watched videos, but there are things that still aren't clear to me. Perhaps starting this Basic Questions thread will prompt others to ask questions  that will help all of us.

I've got a feeling that I (and probably many others) don't use half of the tools available on this mixer.    I'd like to learn more, and make the best use of this wonderful piece of equipment.

Here's the first of probably many questions from me.

If I'm doing channel edit for a specific channel, and I set the rotary to COMP/GATE, am I "PICKING" one effect or can I set multiples?  For example, can I set up a "Compressor 1" and a "Noise Gate" and a "De Esser" at the same time?    OR, If I choose "Compressor 1", is that the only option that I have for that channel?  Working with the mixer, it looks like I can only choose 1 effect but some of the videos seem to indicate that you could set up multiples.

ST, if this discussion needs to be moved to another thread or section, please feel free to move it as you see fit.

Thanks in advance,

Dan

 


Edit Subject: Previously "Basic T4S Questions"

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ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

Re: T4S Comp/Gate - can I pick more than one per channel?

Hi Dan

Let's keep the questions in separate topics so people can use web search engines or the local search function in the community to find them.

This is a great question and I've added it to the wiki article about compression.



Can I use more than one compressor function

Question
Can you add more than one effect on a given channel under the "comp/gate" channel parameter on the rotary dial?

The is one compressor per channel, and it can do only one function at a time (compressor, limiter, noise gate, de-esser, kickgate). For most signal sources, this should not be a limitation as most of the applications where you would use these effects are mutually exclusive.

The other effects (Mod, Delay) and Reverb operate the same way. You can only choose one function within the family of the effect.

Full article: Comp/Gate



ST

Dave_Hazel
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Apr 27, 2019

Re: T4S Comp/Gate - can I pick more than one per channel?

Hi Dan,

You were no more confused than anyone else, its the way the user interface is badly designed. When you press the knob to 'look' at the facility it makes it active but in doing that it deactivates any of the alternatives that you might have selected in that group. Try and think of it this way it might help...

Imagine there is a 'thing' in a room, when you turn it off, you can see that it is off but when you leave the room the light goes out. Now you cannot 'see' if its on or off! So you do the logical thing... You turn the light back on to see if the 'thing' is off or on, the trouble is, when you turn the light on to have a look it also turns the 'thing' back on and anything else gets turned off!

While some audio processing/processes might be typically mutually exclusive, if ever they are used in conjunction the order of a series of process type makes a difference to the overall effect. So if it were to be possible to use more than one, it would also be required to alter the order and that would open up a need for a minefield of routing options that would make things much more complicated.

As I have been reliably informed, as the T4s is a "Compact Mixer" it will have limitations that might otherwise not exist on what might be referred to as a more conventional audio mixer platform. That said, it is designed to be easy to use and set up which is ideal for most solo performers.

Hope that help to alleviate the confusion  

KingBiscuit
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Re: T4S Comp/Gate - can I pick more than one per channel?

Thanks for the information.  I appreciate it! 

With my T1, I just tweaked until it sounded good to my ear, but never took the time to understand what/why I was doing.  Now that I'm retired, I have time to try and learn more instead of just shooting from the hip.  I'm hoping this pays off in a better overall sound.  

Earlier today, I spent a couple of hours tweaking my guitar channel, going through every option, and think it's pretty close to what I want.  It's hard to get a really good sense of it in my small office/music room so playing a gig with it will be the real test.   Just from what I'm hearing at fairly low volume, the T4 mixing into 2 S1 Pros will be a great little PA.

I'll start on the mic channel next.

Thanks again,

Dan

ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

Re: T4S Comp/Gate - can I pick more than one per channel?

Hi Dan,

KingBiscuit posted:

Thanks for the information.  I appreciate it! 

With my T1, I just tweaked until it sounded good to my ear,

Now that you have some more time, you might be interested in the L1 Project History.

You'll find the people at Bose who created the L1, T1, and products that followed were inspired to make it easy for a performer to do what you did, and do it quickly.  They lowered the hurdles we have to overcome to get out there and be heard (well) by our audiences.

but never took the time to understand what/why I was doing.  Now that I'm retired, I have time to try and learn more instead of just shooting from the hip.  I'm hoping this pays off in a better overall sound.  

We shouldn't have to be experts at sound reinforcement or audio processing to get great sound. It's almost cruel to imagine that after mastering our instruments and learning to perform instead of just play,  we should have to learn the art and technology of sound too.



Earlier today, I spent a couple of hours tweaking my guitar channel, going through every option, and think it's pretty close to what I want.  It's hard to get a really good sense of it in my small office/music room so playing a gig with it will be the real test.   Just from what I'm hearing at fairly low volume, the T4 mixing into 2 S1 Pros will be a great little PA.

Get into a bigger room, preferably a gig sized room. The acoustics of a small room does not scale to larger spaces. That is, what sounds good in a small room does not necessarily sound good when you take it to a gig. There are several problems with small rooms (room modes for example) that are not as troublesome in large spaces. So the things you do to compensate for small room issues may not serve you well at a gig. 

By all means, learn about your tools in the most convenient space you've got, and be prepared to make some changes when you get to a gig.

When you get a sound you like at a gig, save the T4S setup as a Scene. Then when you get to your small office/music room, you can make changes as necessary to compensate for the smaller space, and save that as another Scene. Then you can switch back and forth.





I'll start on the mic channel next.

Thanks again,

Dan

Quick refresher.

Check out this playlist of videos for the T4S/T8S.

Cheers, Dan!

ST

Dave_Hazel
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Apr 27, 2019

Re: T4S Comp/Gate - can I pick more than one per channel?

Dan this might help you...

I rationalise that as a vocalist you absolutely cannot hear your 'self' the same way your audience does, as most of what you hear is inside your head/body. I would also say the same applies to, in particular an acoustic guitar, because as the player you are behind it and feeling its vibrations directly while the sound is being projected forward and away from the player.

With that in mind, what I've been doing is taking live recordings straight from the T4s onto my PC (using the USB). Having done that, I can then play the recording back while placing myself in the same area that my audience would be.

To make your recordings is dead simple, you might download and install something called Audacity https://www.audacityteam.org/download/ its 100% free. You can simply connect your T4s via USB to your PC, record your performance and then play it straight back again via the T4s and your PA speakers. 

KingBiscuit
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Re: T4S Comp/Gate - can I pick more than one per channel?

Thanks everyone for the information.

I agree, I'll definitely need to get out to a gig to do the final set up on my scene.  Since I don't have anything set up in the T4 at this time, I'm just getting a starting point for the gigs.   I'll probably end up with 2  basic scenes, "indoor" and "outdoor".   This will be the starting point when I get to a gig.  If I have specific needs for a particular gig, I'll define that as a separate scene.

 

Thanks again,

Dan

ccc1
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Mar 29, 2018

Re: T4S Comp/Gate - can I pick more than one per channel?

The majority of pre packaged effects allow for only one choice reverb or chorus, chorus or trem... .... ... I like to mix and match s...o I might choose a very specific reverb run in parallel with a trem. then in series with a delay

. The pre pkg effects allow for the most general usage, and most often used. You may have multiple choices but you can usually only select one. Say delay, you may have the choice of slap, (the slap may have a bit of compression already mixed in depending on the unit) dotted 8th or quarter. note  .. ... ... Most of us, lets say in delay, may choose a quarter note and fine tune the number of repeats if the effect allows that, but by adding another delay unit into the mix, a dotted 8th for the delay I get a really nice delay. The only multiple effects in a box that really made it to the big rigs that I can think of at the moment is Line 6 maybe Boss. OK dedicated effects boxes Eventide, Lexicon are a few others. This is not simple and is mean't for the discerning hear, those who do not know what they want or how to get it are very happy with the way the company sets up their effects.