Highlighted
Friendly Fanatic
  • 13
  • 22
  • 0
Registered since

May 8, 2018

T8S Reverb doesnt sound as good as on T1 at all

Hi.

Since i really love my T1 mixer and I really needed more channels, I "uppgraded" to T8S, and have now tested it booth live and compared it side by side to the T1.

Here are my thoughts and questions:

The sound without effects is very close, but I do feel that I can hear some small differences in the preamps. Little more defined in the highs and lows compared to the T1. But they do sound very similar.

I tried to copy all the settings from my T1 that always sounded great in every situations. But got a little bit confused when it came to the Reverb, I couldn´t event get close to the reverb sounds on the T1. That was something we really noticed at the gig a couple days ago. It sounded not at all like it used to. Totally dry.

I read yesterday that there was some firmware updates, and some of them was about the reverb. So I A/B tested my T8S and T1 before I did the update to 10.0.10. And A/B tested them afterwards, and they do still sound totally different.

In my T1 I have a medium reverb set to 1.70s Bal:50%. And the channel mix 40% and bright 50%. And that works great with a Shure Beta58.

If I try to set the same on the T8S (the difference is that the time i set to % instead of s. But the 1.70s is about 50% so I set the percentage to 50% to start with.) And I cant´t here no reverb at all. No differens in sound if I mute the reverb or unmute it.

If I increase the percentage to nearly full, and the bright to 100% there is reverb but its still darker and "muffled" kind of in the background and not close to the sound. And sounds sort of metallic (like it does when you overdoing the settings on the reberb) It doesnt sound good at all, unuseful to me, unfortently.

I was hoping that the T8S should have the same or a little better reverb than the T1, wich have a good reverb, but not as good as my RCF M18-mixer. But the T8S reverb is really a couple steps down from the T1.

Or have I missed anything? Any settings, or other upgrades beside the firmware 10.0.10?

I was planning to sell my T1 and RCF M18, and replace them with the T8S, but at the moment thats impossible because of the reverb actually.

I would really like to get some comments on this thread. 
Thanks

/ Daniel

35 REPLIES 35
Highlighted
Animated Arbiter
  • 12
  • 40
  • 0
Registered since

Apr 21, 2018

Re: T8S Reverb doesnt sound as good as on T1 at all

Firmware is up to 10.0.10

Highlighted
Friendly Fanatic
  • 13
  • 22
  • 0
Registered since

May 8, 2018

Re: T8S Reverb doesnt sound as good as on T1 at all

Squid: Yes I know, wrong spelling in my post, its now corrected. I did upgrade to 10.0.10

Highlighted
Professional Legend
  • 1403
  • 48121
  • 0
Registered since

May 11, 2020

Re: T8S Reverb doesnt sound as good as on T1 at all

Hi Daniel,

Congratulations on getting your new T8S.

Daniel Blohm posted:

Hi.

Since i really love my T1 mixer and I really needed more channels, I "uppgraded" to T8S, and have now tested it booth live and compared it side by side to the T1.

Here are my thoughts and questions:

The sound without effects is very close, but I do feel that I can hear some small differences in the preamps. Little more defined in the highs and lows compared to the T1. But they do sound very similar.

I tried to copy all the settings from my T1 that always sounded great in every situations. But got a little bit confused when it came to the Reverb, I couldn´t event get close to the reverb sounds on the T1. That was something we really noticed at the gig a couple days ago. It sounded not at all like it used to. Totally dry.

I read yesterday that there was some firmware updates, and some of them was about the reverb. So I A/B tested my T8S and T1 before I did the update to 10.0.10. And A/B tested them afterwards, and they do still sound totally different.

That's good to know you are using the latest firmware.

For others reading along you can get that here:
T4S T8S Firmware Update Instructions

In my T1 I have a medium reverb set to 1.70s Bal:50%. And the channel mix 40% and bright 50%. And that works great with a Shure Beta58.

If I try to set the same on the T8S (the difference is that the time i set to % instead of s. But the 1.70s is about 50% so I set the percentage to 50% to start with.) And I cant´t here no reverb at all. No differens in sound if I mute the reverb or unmute it.

The time setting for reverb on the T4S/T8S is expressed as % (percent) of the time range for each type of reverb.

Type        Time Range
Plate0 – 4.6 s
Small0 – 0.8 s
Medium0 – 1.9 s
Large0 – 3.5 s
Cavern0 – 7.0 s



100 % is 10 seconds. So the equivalent to your T1® setting would be 17% (see detailed notes below).

If I increase the percentage to nearly full, and the bright to 100% there is reverb but its still darker and "muffled" kind of in the background and not close to the sound. And sounds sort of metallic (like it does when you overdoing the settings on the reberb) It doesnt sound good at all, unuseful to me, unfortently.

It sounds as though you may have set the reverb to Aux instead of Main.

Aux

instead of Main

OR

Aux

Instead of Main



I was hoping that the T8S should have the same or a little better reverb than the T1, wich have a good reverb, but not as good as my RCF M18-mixer. But the T8S reverb is really a couple steps down from the T1.

Or have I missed anything? Any settings, or other upgrades beside the firmware 10.0.10?

I was planning to sell my T1 and RCF M18, and replace them with the T8S, but at the moment thats impossible because of the reverb actually.

I would really like to get some comments on this thread. 
Thanks

/ Daniel

Please double check. If you have set the Menu to Aux in the Global and channel settings, you won't hear a difference when you bypass the reverb. And if you push the volume up, you may hear some cross-channel reverb coming from the Aux sub-mix.

ST


Here's an overview of setting Reverb.

Adding Reverb to a Channel

The Reverb function applies a user-adjustable amount of reverb to the selected channel. To select the type of reverb, see “Selecting a Reverb Type” below. Note: To mute the Reverb effects, press the Mix control. Press it again to unmute.

  1. Press or rotate the Menu control and select which output (Main or Aux) to send the reverb to.
  2. Rotate the Mix control to adjust the desired mix of dry signal (0%) to wet signal (100%).
  3. Rotate the Bright control to equalize the high frequencies of reverb applied to the selected channel

Setting Global Reverb Type

Selecting a Reverb Type

The Reverb Type function allows you to select the type of reverb that is applied to all input channels. The decay time (Time) and balance (Bal) are adjustable. Balance controls the ratio of early-to-late re?ections.

Note: To mute the Reverb, press the Type control. Press it again to unmute.

Global Reverb Settings are different from the T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine.
T4S/T8S ToneMatch® Mixers Global Reverb settings
MenuMain or Aux 1 (apply following settings to Main or Aux)
TypePlate, Small, Medium, Large, Cavern
Time
Type        Time Range
Plate0 – 4.6 s
Small0 – 0.8 s
Medium0 – 1.9 s
Large0 – 3.5 s
Cavern0 – 7.0 s
BalancePercentage (ratio of early/later re?ections)
T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine Global Reverb settings
TypePlate, Small, Medium, Large, Cavern
TimeMilliseconds from 0.20 - 9.79 seconds
BalancePercentage (ratio of early/later re?ections)



  1. Select Reverb Type with the rotary selector.
  2. Press or rotate the Menu control and select which output to send the reverb too. You can send a different reverb type to either the Main or Aux sends.
  3. Rotate the Type control to display the list of reverbs:
    • Plate – Creates the ambiance of a typical studio plate reverb. Features adjustable time and balance (ratio of early/later re?ections) parameters.
    • Small – Creates the ambiance of a small-sized space. Features adjustable time and balance (ratio of early/later re?ections) parameters.
    • Medium – Creates the ambiance of a medium-sized space. Features adjustable time and balance (ratio of early/later re?ections) parameters.
    • Large – Creates the ambiance of a large-sized space. Features adjustable time and balance (ratio of early/later re?ections) parameters.
    • Cavern – Creates the ambiance of an extremely large space. Features adjustable time and balance (ratio of early/later re?ections) parameters. A unique and interesting reverb effect.
  4. Rotate the Type control to scroll through the reverb list and highlight the desired reverb type.
  5. Press the Type control to select.
  6. Rotating the Time control controls the decay time of the selected reverb model from its minimum decay time to its maximum decay time. At 0%, the decay time will be at minimum and will simulate the smallest room size available to the currently selected reverb type. At 100%, the decay time will be at maximum and will simulate the largest room size available to the currently selected reverb type. Each reverb type has their own usable range of decay times that work best for the selected model type. The Reverb Decay parameter allows you to adjust the reverb time between the speci?c ranges that work best for the selected reverb model type.
  7. Press the Time control to switch to Bal. Rotate the Bal. control to adjust the early-to-late re?ection ratio (0% = all early re?ections, 100% = all late re?ections).



Source: T4S/T8S Reverb Settings

Highlighted
Friendly Fanatic
  • 13
  • 22
  • 0
Registered since

May 8, 2018

Re: T8S Reverb doesnt sound as good as on T1 at all

Thank you for an fantastic answer/effort/support.
Unfortently it didn't fix the "problem".

I was earlier also thinking about main/aux settings, and have tried it.

Im sitting now and comparing the two medium reverbs.
I would say that the T8S sounds with the BRIGHT 100% compares to T1 BRIGHT 5%

And T8S TIME 90% compares to T1 1.70s (estimated counting seconds)
If I set it to 17% as you suggested or 50% like I tried before, the reverb i so short that "there is no reverb".

Highlighted
Friendly Fanatic
  • 13
  • 22
  • 0
Registered since

May 8, 2018

Re: T8S Reverb doesnt sound as good as on T1 at all

Are someone else experience this difference between the T1 and T8S?

Highlighted
Professional Legend
  • 1403
  • 48121
  • 0
Registered since

May 11, 2020

Re: T8S Reverb doesnt sound as good as on T1 at all

Daniel,

I'm investigating the question here. It may take me a couple of days to get back to you.

I am sorry keep you waiting.

ST

Highlighted
Professional Legend
  • 1403
  • 48121
  • 0
Registered since

May 11, 2020

Re: T8S Reverb doesnt sound as good as on T1 at all

Hi Daniel,

I've found out a little more - and made corrections to my posts above.

First - the Reverb engine in the T4S/T8S is new and improved from the T1®.

As a result, there is no direct mapping from the T1® settings to the T4S/T8S.

Here is how the percentages are applied to each type of reverb.

Time is
percentage
of
Time Range
for each
Type

Type        Time Range
Plate0 – 4.6 s
Small0 – 0.8 s
Medium0 – 1.9 s
Large0 – 3.5 s
Cavern0 – 7.0 s

So your Medium 1.7 seconds on the T1® becomes

Medium 90%  (1.7/1.9 = 90%) on the T8S.

Try turning up the Mix to 50% and experimenting with the Brightness.

ST

Highlighted
Friendly Fanatic
  • 13
  • 22
  • 0
Registered since

May 8, 2018

Re: T8S Reverb doesnt sound as good as on T1 at all

Finally I had time to test your suggested settings.

Im sorry but it still doesn't sound like the old reverb. And of course if Its a complete new reverb it probably won't.

But I still have a hard time get at "good" sounding reverb from the T8S. It doesn't matter which Type I use, all reverbs have no "pre-reverb" or what I shall call it. Its completely dry, and after the dry sound there is a reverb "tail" that is quite muffled, dark sounding. I can't at any settings get a "big" ballad sound if you get my point. Its just dry with a to my eras quite dark and metallic tail.

Best sound I get so far is Type: Large Bal: 100% Time 30%. Chanel mix 40% Bright: 100%. But that sounds like a gated reverb or a short delay. Not a "big" sounding reverb.

Highlighted
Friendly Fanatic
  • 13
  • 22
  • 0
Registered since

May 8, 2018

Re: T8S Reverb doesnt sound as good as on T1 at all

A suggestion...
Would it be possible in a future update to get some reverb presets to choose from? On my RCF M18 mixer there are a lot presets to choose from and I can get great sounds direct just by choosing one that I like, and maby just fine-tune it a little. Here I am trying and trying and still don't get any good results. To my ears they all sound like a Plate reverb.