ToneMatch and External Effects

[Bewlay_Brother]

I really enjoy the BOSE L1 Classic and then purchased the TONE MATCH T1 a decade ago too!   Recently I have expanded my performing effects beyond the TONE MATCH options to include loop boxes, Zen Drive box, some Pink Floyd & Stones effects, distortions, and a boost box for leads over my loop tracks, but still I want to use the nicely perfected EQ for my Martin D28HDV and Strat on the ToneMatch.

However, with the configuration of the ToneMatch outputs there seems to be no send/receive option or override for even one of the channels.

Currently, there seems to be no way to plug directly into channel 1 and output or Aux out through some external stomp boxes and come back into the Tone Match to channel 2 without dealing with the added mix of channel 1.   Can you cut out Ch 1 from the main out mix without effecting Aux output?

I guess I could go direct to the L1 from Aux output and disconnect the Tone Match use the volume control from the L1.  But then I cannot use my Trio Plus drum machine and the Mic Voice box through channels 3 & 4.

Anyone have a solution to outsmart the current limitation?

[ST - Pro]

Hi, Bewlay Brother.

Welcome to the Bose Portable PA Community.

Bewlay Brother posted:

I really enjoy the BOSE L1 Classic and then purchased the TONE MATCH T1 a decade ago too!  

Great.

Recently I have expanded my performing effects beyond the TONE MATCH options to include loop boxes, Zen Drive box, some Pink Floyd & Stones effects, distortions, and a boost box for leads over my loop tracks, but still I want to use the nicely perfected EQ for my Martin D28HDV and Strat on the ToneMatch.

However, with the configuration of the ToneMatch outputs there seems to be no send/receive option or override for even one of the channels.

Currently, there seems to be no way to plug directly into channel 1 and output or Aux out through some external stomp boxes and come back into the Tone Match to channel 2 without dealing with the added mix of channel 1.   Can you cut out Ch 1 from the main out mix without effecting Aux output?

If you mean Channel 1 on the T1, the CHMUTE button will mute the output to the T1 Main Output. If you use the Aux output with the Tap Point set to Pre with EQ & FX the CHMUTE button does not affect the Aux output.

See:

T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine Aux Output
--?8T? Please click the picture for more details ?T8?--    

I guess I could go direct to the L1 from Aux output and disconnect the Tone Match use the volume control from the L1.  But then I cannot use my Trio Plus drum machine and the Mic Voice box through channels 3 & 4.

Anyone have a solution to outsmart the current limitation?

Here is something to try.

Vocal Microphone to T1 Channel 1.

T1 Channel 1 Preamp Output to Mic Voice Box.

Guitar to T1 Channel 2.

T1 Channel 2 Preamp Output to Trio+

Mic Voice Box output to L1 Classic Channel 1. Control the volume with the L1 Classic R1 Remote.

Trio+ Mixer Out to L1 Classic channel 2. Control the volume using the L1 Classic R1 Remote.

T1 Main Output to L1 Classic channel 4. Control the volume on the T1

Blend in guitar and vocal on the T1.

That should give some ideas to work with.

ST

[Bewlay_Brother]

Thanks ST!

I will give this a try. If I can mute a T1 channel (cn.1) without it affecting the Aux out, then this should work as long as the EQ still effects the Aux out.

here is my goal: 

Ch 1 in:  Guitar direct in  - use T1 EQ and effects and send/assign to Aux out.

*Aux Out then goes to external stomp box effects, then thru TC Electronics Play Electric (voice pitch reference for harmonies), then finally Thru Trio Plus guitar out to use its loop and create rhythms.

Ch 2 in:  Trio Plus Guitar thru out with all the effects (stomp box & T1  EQ)

Ch3 in:  Trio Plus drums and bass main output

Ch 4 in: Mic from TC Electronic Play Electric out (has voice plus harmonies) 

So you are saying I can accomplish this and mute CH 1. on the T1 main output to the L1, and it will not impair the Aux Out with guitar and T1 EQ applied?

Thanks for following my summary!

[Bewlay_Brother]

PS: The reason why I am summarizing my goal for clarity is that the BOSE Tech Rep today said this is not possible with the T1. CH1. he said would also be muted on AUX out along with CH1 muted on the main out. I will go try it tonight though when I get into the studio! I will be physicked if I can accomplish this!

[ST - Pro]

Hi, Bewlay Brother.

Bewlay Brother posted:

PS: The reason why I am summarizing my goal for clarity is that the BOSE Tech Rep today said this is not possible with the T1. CH1. he said would also be muted on AUX out along with CH1 muted on the main out. I will go try it tonight though when I get into the studio! I will be physicked if I can accomplish this!

If you set the Tap point to Post: After Fader

The CHMUTE button and channel volume control will affect the sound at Aux output.

If you set the Tap point to Dry: After Preamp or Pre: With EQ and FX the CHMUTE button does not affect the Aux Output.

Please let us know how it all works out.

ST

[Bewlay_Brother]

thanks so much ST... you are the reigning expert on this!

Though the BOSE Techs swear this function cannot be executed and routed back into CH 2 from Ch1->AUX OUT as a loop back in, you were correct in that it can be accomplished. Now I can use it as a send/receive function using the EQ settings for my Martin D28 and send out through my external boxes, Trio plus and TC Elect-VoiceLIVEplay back into the T1 CH 2! This allows me still 2 free channels for the trio plus drums & bass as well as the mic from the VoiceLIVEPlay. 

The only oddity testing all this out was that only some effects go out through AUX out. Reverb does not for some reason. That was what was throwing me off initially as I was not hearing the applied reverb in the AUX out so I assumed it was dry. But messing with it more- the chorus & delay come through as well as EQ function effects on the AUX OUT in the Pre: with EQ & FX mode setting.

Any thoughts to why Reverb would not be assignable in this mode or post fader mode to AUX out?

[ST - Pro]

Hi, Bewlay Brother.

Bewlay Brother posted:

thanks so much ST... you are the reigning expert on this!

Though the BOSE Techs swear this function cannot be executed and routed back into CH 2 from Ch1->AUX OUT as a loop back in, you were correct in that it can be accomplished. Now I can use it as a send/receive function using the EQ settings for my Martin D28 and send out through my external boxes, Trio plus and TC Elect-VoiceLIVEplay back into the T1 CH 2! This allows me still 2 free channels for the trio plus drums & bass as well as the mic from the VoiceLIVEPlay. 

Great.

The only oddity testing all this out was that only some effects go out through AUX out. Reverb does not for some reason. That was what was throwing me off initially as I was not hearing the applied reverb in the AUX out so I assumed it was dry. But messing with it more- the chorus & delay come through as well as EQ function effects on the AUX OUT in the Pre: with EQ & FX mode setting.

Any thoughts to why Reverb would not be assignable in this mode or post fader mode to AUX out?  

As you've discovered, there's no reverb on Aux

No Reverb on Aux

Q: Why is there no Reverb on the Aux output of the T1 ToneMatch Audio Engine?

A: Hilmar-at-Bose writes^[2]

The T1 ToneMatch Audio Engine has lots of different effects units and normally they are unique to each channel. That means that the T1^® has 4 individual dynamic processors, 4 modulators (chorus flanger, phaser, etc.) , 4 EQs, 4 delay processors, etc. The only exception is the reverb, which is shared by all channels.

The AUX is also a per-channel control. That means if you turn up the AUX of the channel, you expect to hear signals from channel 1 and only from channel 1. However, the output of the reverb processor contains the reverb portions of all 4 channels. If we add that to the Aux, you'd hear the reverb portions of all 4 channels and not only the channel that you are interested in. In most cases, this is probably not what you want.

If you are familiar with conventional mixing consoles, you will find that the situation is quite similar. You can only route to an AUX output effects that are specific to a channel (normally these would be connected to the insert loop of this channel). The "shared" effects typically come into the board through an AUX return, which is not channel-specific.

Source: T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine Aux Output

ST

[Bewlay_Brother]

THANKS FOR THE EXPLAIN... ST!

It makes sense about the reverb fx being global vs. separate channels. I don't really need the reverb anyway as I have a stomp box for that. I really was hoping for the EQ and comp so I am golden on this!

This has been really helpful!

PS: since you know this product so well... is there a big difference between the T1 and the T4 that would warrant ditching the T1 and buying the T4? They seem almost the same for FX's except the Pre-Outs on T-1 are gone on the T4, which nobody really uses dry outs anyway on a 4 channel mixer!

[ST - Pro]

Hi, Bewlay Brother.

Bewlay Brother posted:

THANKS FOR THE EXPLAIN... ST!

It makes sense about the reverb fx being global vs. separate channels. I don't really need the reverb anyway as I have a stomp box for that. I really was hoping for the EQ and comp so I am golden on this!

This has been really helpful!

PS: since you know this product so well... is there a big difference between the T1 and the T4 that would warrant ditching the T1 and buying the T4? They seem almost the same for FX's except the Pre-Outs on T-1 are gone on the T4, which nobody really uses dry outs anyway on a 4 channel mixer!

Please check out this link Comparison to T1® ToneMatch audio engine

As you've spotted, there are no Preamp Outs on the T4S. However, there is Reverb available on Aux 1. The parametric equalizers have three bands and if you need to run stereo, you can.

Please follow the link above for more details.

ST

[Bewlay_Brother]

Great info!

For now I think I will keep the T1 since I am still in mono as a PA system and everything I need to do is accomplished currently.

Thanks for sharing and responding ST.... your info was really helpful!

BB