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FrankC1
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Jan 23, 2019

Two S1 Pro Systems for two performers

I have been using a S1 Pro for guitar, vocal and beatbuddy for small restaurant gigs of average 60-80 patrons. Occasionally I have a duo partner and a mix is needed for the extra inputs.

I've been thinking of getting a second S1 for extra coverage and inputs, however, I would still have to bring a mixer to have both guitars and microphones coming out from both units.

one feature that I'd really like to see added to the S1 is the ability to connect two S1s enabling inputs on both units be used at the same time. This would eliminate the need for a mixer and would be a big push for those like me who are thinking of getting a second S1.

9 REPLIES 9
ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

Re: Two S1 Pro Systems for two performers

Hi FrankC,

You probably don't need a mixer if you get a second S1 Pro.

Check out Cocktail Party Effect.

Then you'll understand why I'd recommend trying this:

S1 Pro #1
Channel 1: Microphone
Channel 2: Guitar
Channel 3: Beat Buddy

S1 Pro #2
Channel 1: Microphone
Channel 2: Guitar

No mixer required.

I would not connect the two S1 Pro systems.

You'll maintain the Cocktail Party Effect and have better gain-before-feedback compared to connecting the two S1 Pro systems together (daisy chain or panning microphones to both S1 Pro systems).

ST

Seagullman
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Dec 13, 2013

Re: Two S1 Pro Systems for two performers

Hi ST,

having just read your reply, it looks as if you might need to correct the Inputs on the S1 Pro #1.

ST posted:

S1 Pro #1
Channel 1: Microphone
Channel 2: Microphone
Channel 3: Beat Buddy

It looks as if you probably wanted to write 

S1 Pro #1
Channel 1: Microphone
Channel 2: Guitar
Channel 3: Beat Buddy

and then the Gremlins decided to join in.

As for the rest I would completely agree with your suggestion, especially considering gain before feedback and the "cocktail effect".

Keep up the good work

Tony

 

 
FrankC1
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Re: Two S1 Pro Systems for two performers

Although this is only my second post, I've been following this forum for more than a year, even a few months before I purchased the S1, As always the responses to questions are prompt and helpful. I've learned a lot here. Much appreciated.

Perhaps I'm overthinking a bit, but if I want to place one S1 in the middle of a rectangular shape venue, wouldn't it sound weird if one set of  guitar and mic are coming out from one S1 while the other S1 has a different set of sound ?

Wouldn't the Cocktail Party Effect only apply when both speakers are placed parallel on stage ?

ST - Pro
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Re: Two S1 Pro Systems for two performers

Hi Tony,

Thanks, I have corrected my post above.

ST

Seagullman
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Re: Two S1 Pro Systems for two performers

Hi Frank,

for the "Cocktail Party Effect" to work with speakers you'll have to think of them as sounds/people at a cocktail party or some other kind of gathering. By this I mean that Musician 1 goes into speaker 1 placed near him/her and Musician 2 goes into speaker 2 placed near him/her. This way your eyes look in the direction a particular sound is coming from and you can therefore associate these sounds with a particular source (in your case musician) just like you would at some sort of gathering. 

Unless you're playing on a massive stage with the loudspeakers placed far left and right and your audience is standing right at the front, they should automatically be able to associate each musician with the sound coming out of his loudspeaker, which ideally won't be placed too far away from him.

You could try this out either by setting up a small PA, panning each musician to just one of the loudspeakers (e.g. musician 1 to the left and musician 2 to the right, or by using 2 S1 Pro systems set up as ST has suggested. Place the loudspeakers roughly where the musicians are standing/sitting and record the music with a stereo audio recorder. Listen to the recording through headphones and you should be able to visualise the musicians.

With L1's this works really well as they "throw" the sound a long way without really losing much in the way of volume, so you really can experience the "Cocktail Party Effect". I've not tried it with S1's, but in smaller locations I can't see why it shouldn't work.

Does that help in any way?

Tony

 

Seagullman
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Re: Two S1 Pro Systems for two performers

ST posted:

Hi Tony,

Thanks, I have corrected my post above.

ST

You're more than welcome ST. I was pretty sure that it was only the gremlins playing games. 

Tony

ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

Re: Two S1 Pro Systems for two performers

Hi FrankC,

Imagine your duo partner also did solo gigs with his own S1 Pro.  When your duo partner joins you, he can bring his S1 Pro and set up beside you.

I would set up something like this with the S1 Pro systems in the tilt-back position or on speaker stands).

OR like this for better monitoring

OR like this for better gain-before-feedback 

FrankC posted:

Although this is only my second post, I've been following this forum for more than a year, even a few months before I purchased the S1, As always the responses to questions are prompt and helpful. I've learned a lot here. Much appreciated.

Perhaps I'm overthinking a bit, but if I want to place one S1 in the middle of a rectangular shape venue, wouldn't it sound weird if one set of  guitar and mic are coming out from one S1 while the other S1 has a different set of sound ?

When you perform solo, it makes sense to set up in the middle of the stage. When you're joined by your duo partner, I imagine you'd share the stage equally.

Wouldn't the Cocktail Party Effect only apply when both speakers are placed parallel on stage ?

Even if you stayed in the middle of the stage you could do something like this.

If you were to use a mixer to have all the inputs coming out both S1 Pro systems, you would lower your gain-before-feedback. This is true of any multiple system setup (not unique to the S1 Pro).



  1. When you add microphones to a sound system you lower the gain-before-feedback
  2. When you add loudspeakers to a sound system you lower the gain-before-feedback



  • When you join two S1 Pro systems using a mixer and run all inputs to both S1 Pro systems, you are doing both #1 and #2 above
  • If you keep the S1 Pro systems separate, you avoid both #1 and #2



Does that help?

ST

Edit: I just noticed Seagullman's post above. We must have been typing at the same time, except that Tony is faster.

FrankC1
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Jan 23, 2019

Re: Two S1 Pro Systems for two performers

Hi ST & Tony,

thank you both for your help. It certainly has helped me understanding the Cocktail Party Effect better.

There is however still the situation (narrow and long or L shape venue) where one S1 has to placed away from the main stage where the performers are. If one player's guitar and mic are isolated from the other's, the back and front audiences will hear mainly one player's performance.

We have used a Carvin AG300 as our main amp and used a Boss WL20L wireless system to connect the direct out to the S1 placed about 25-30 feet down a side wall. The Carvin has enough inputs for our needs and we don't need to use the inputs on the S1 and have no problems with gain-before-feedback. This configuration has worked well for us without the need for a mixer.

However, the Carvin is quite a bit heavier and bulkier than the S1 and doesn't have battery power. A second S1 Pro would be perfect replacement for the Carvin if inputs on both speakers can be used and mixed.

i don't think this issue has been addressed, but my due apology if it has been and I missed it.

ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

Re: Two S1 Pro Systems for two performers

Hi FrankC,

Thanks for the clarification.

In a venue where you and one S1 Pro can provide sound for the whole room, adding a second performer with his own S1 Pro wouldn't require a mixer.

FrankC posted:

I have been using a S1 Pro for guitar, vocal and beatbuddy for small restaurant gigs of average 60-80 patrons. Occasionally I have a duo partner and a mix is needed for the extra inputs.

I've been thinking of getting a second S1 for extra coverage and inputs

You don't need a mixer.

, however, I would still have to bring a mixer to have both guitars and microphones coming out from both units.

But if you are using a second S1 Pro as an extension loudspeaker in a long narrow or L-shaped room and you are comparing the S1 Pro to the Carvin AG300, that's a different situation.



one feature that I'd really like to see added to the S1 is the ability to connect two S1s enabling inputs on both units be used at the same time. This would eliminate the need for a mixer and would be a big push for those like me who are thinking of getting a second S1.

In that second situation, it would be handing if you could combine all the inputs and have the sound come out of both S1 Pro systems. You're right, the S1 Pro system won't do that.

ST