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Media4u2
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Jan 31, 2008

UPDATE on ToneMatch, MegaSeg and MacBook

Some of you may remember the problems I reported a while back with the USB Audio from my Intel Core i7 Processor MacBook when running MegaSeg Pro DJ software. Simply put, MegaSeg loses the USB audio connection if the software is idle for any length of time, say 10-15 minutes. (That's the time you might have it sitting there while you do the blessing, toasts, etc. before you get back to the table to re-start the music, for example.) When the BOSE USB AUDIO connection to the ToneMatch is lost through inactivity, the “fix” is to re-boot the MacBook Pro, etc. It has been a nightmare and is completely unacceptable.

However, the workaround is to use the Griffin iMic USB audio device or the Behringer USB audio device instead of using a direct USB Connection to the Bose ToneMatch. So I did that while I waited for Bose, MegaSeg, and Apple to come up with answers.

Bose says it is not their fault. The USB connection works flawlessly with my 2008 MacBook Pro and the latest version of MegaSeg, and it works perfectly with everyone else's USB audio, so Bose says it is Apple's fault or MegaSeg's fault.

Apple says their USB connection works perfectly with the iMic and the Behringer devices and with all the rest of the DJ software, so it has to be either Bose's fault or MegaSeg's fault.

MegaSeg says it is not their fault, either. MegaSeg works with the other USB devices and all the other computers, so the fault must lie with either Apple or Bose.

In the mean time, I cannot use the direct USB connection from my mid-2010 MacBook Pro to the ToneMatch USB input. So it must be MY fault.

OK... that's the summary of what has gone on over the last 18-24 months.

Here's the UPDATE:
Two weeks ago, I took my MacBook Pro up to the local Apple Store and told them it is time to drop-kick their computer into the fires of ****. They kept it for two weeks and eventually decided to replace the processor, the touchpad, and the 8GB of memory, installing Apple memory in place of my OWC memory. In other words, they did everything except give me a new computer. When it came back, I ran a test session with MegaSeg, and, as usual, it failed. At the end of 15 minutes of silence, the USB connection was lost, and the software became sluggish (2-second delay on commands not even related to audio), and a total reboot of the computer was necessary to get MegaSeg to work again. So long as I keep something going through the audio feed, though, it will not lose the USB connection. Same as before, in other words.

So I asked if the new MacBook Pro with USB 3.0 and Mountain Lion would make a difference. They told me the only way to find out is to buy one, since they didn't have any available at the store for me to try out. They said I can take it back for a full refund and no re-stocking fee if it doesn't work. Since the MacBook Pro that I have won't work with MegaSeg and ToneMatch the way it should, I figured I'd give it a try.

Here are the results of the purchase.

I bought a new 15-inch, 2.67GHz w/ TurboBoost to 3.7 (whatever that means), an Intel i7 Quad-Core processor, USB 3.0 (backwards compatible to 2.0), and a 1-TB hard drive with Mountain Lion installed.

I installed only MegaSeg and ran it through the Bose ToneMatch USB audio port to a Bose L1 Compact system. (In the past, I tested everything with two different Compacts, an L1 Model II system, different USB cables, and two different ToneMatch audio engines w/ current specs (1.8).

I ran the audio for a while and then turned off the music. I came back 15 minutes later. It started up with no problem. I tried 16, 17, 18, 19, and 20 minutes with complete success. I paused the music for 25 minutes, and that is where it lost the USB audio feed to the ToneMatch's USB port. I went to the Device OUTPUT selection on MegaSeg, switched it to Built-In Output, and the music played through the MacBook Pro's internal speakers. Then I switched it back to BOSE USB AUDIO and, lo and behold, it works! Instead of silence and molasses-like response, the audio picked up immediately. (Remember, with the other MacBook, the ONLY way to get it back was a full re-boot.) So I tried it for half an hour, then an hour, and finally, overnight. Each time, all it took to get the USB Audio connection back was the flip-flop of Output devices to Built-In and back to Bose USB audio, and it “recognizes” it again. SO... all I have to do after the music has been paused for any length of time is to click on the Device Output selection, move to Built-In and back to BOSE USB AUDIO, and I'm good to go.

In other words, it still doesn't work the way it SHOULD, but at least it will work!

So, any of you who are running MegaSeg with your MacBook Pro and the ToneMatch -- if you are having this trouble -- be advised that the new MacBook Pro computers with Mountain Lion will run it with that one workaround.

I have installed Mountain Lion on the 2008 MacBook Pro that has always run MegaSeg perfectly through the ToneMatch, and it continues to run perfectly.

[Things I don't need or want to hear from anyone: get a PC instead of a MAC; use different DJ Software; use a different mixer. Had I wanted to do any of those things, I would have done so long ago, so keep that advice to yourself.]

Note to any Bose Engineers who happen to be unlucky enough to have to read this post:
I called Bose Tech Support a couple of weeks ago and spoke with Bob (I think) about the unique problem with my specific MacBook Pro. This was prior to my purchasing the new MacBook Pro. I asked him what he thought the chances are that the new MacBook with USB 3.0 would make a difference, and he didn't think that would be a significant factor. I suggested that since it is a new architecture, there might be enough small changes in the backwards-compatibility of the connection to make a difference. Either that, or the new Quad-Core version of the i7 processor, or some other quirk in this model, has made enough of a difference so that I can get it to work.

QUESTIONS FOR BOSE: Will there be either a firmware update or a new version of ToneMatch that allows for either USB 3.0 or for Firewire connection? Apple seemed to think that sending packets down the line via USB is less desirable than streaming the audio down a Firewire connection.

The problem still remains, however, even though I have the work-around. Let's face it: the ToneMatch USB Audio connection should NOT be one which, for whatever reason, disappears after some down time.

Perhaps a conference call among Bose Engineering, Apple Engineering, and Jason Cox of MegaSeg would lead to a resolution of the problem--or at least the proper identification of what exactly is CAUSING the problem so that at least ONE of the three can make the adjustment to allow the connection to work properly all the time.

In the mean time, I have put a perfectly good, completely rebuilt MacBook Pro on Craigslist to try to defray some of what it is costing ME to solve the problem.
9 REPLIES 9
Joelheck
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Jul 16, 2007

Re: UPDATE on ToneMatch, MegaSeg and MacBook

Since you do not wish to change any of the items or Brands of the items you are using, the advice is quite simple.

The definition of "Insanity" is doing the same thing over and over with the same items and expecting different results.

Anything that gave me that much trouble and required a constant unacceptable work around would be long gone. I refuse to work with any equipment that does not have consistent and reliable results. The mere though of holding one's breath or crossing their fingers in hope of a magic fix is just not acceptable. Especially not in a paid working environment.

No offense intended, just hate to see you beating your head against the wall.
Media4u2
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Jan 31, 2008

Re: UPDATE on ToneMatch, MegaSeg and MacBook

Joel,

Of COURSE I take no offense at being called insane. Why WOULD I?

All three products--Apple's MacBook Pro, Bose's ToneMatch audio engine, and Jason Cox'x Megaseg Pro DJ software--are high quality products.

It just so happens that the particular blend of these three products in this particular way has caused a disconnect. What *I* am looking for is for one, two, or all three of them to come together to fix what is wrong.

My approach to this is, "There is a problem that can and should be fixed. How can it be fixed?"

My expectation is that it will be fixed once the right people turn their minds and skills towards the problem.

I'm not looking for a "magic fix," nor am I holding my breath. The workaround on the 2010 was not "unacceptable;" it just didn't fix the problem.

I'll give you an example. Let's say you buy a new Mercedes E350 because you believe it is a well-engineered automobile, and you particularly like the lane drift protection that warns you when you inadvertently drift across the line into the wrong lane, and you like the "PreSafe" features, which Mercedes says "can detect conditions that suggest a collision or rollover is imminent, then adjust the front seat belts, front passenger seat, windows and sunroof, to better prepare the occupants in the moments before a collision."

But there is a problem. Every once in a while, if you crank the music up full as you cruise the highway, you hear what sounds like ground hum coming through the system. You discover that for some reason you can avoid the ground hum sound by putting a 3.5mm plug into the audio input on the dash, even if nothing is going through the line. You realize this system is the best sounding auto sound system you're ever heard! So... You take the car to Mercedes, and their experts cannot find a fix. You contact the audio company, Harmon Kardon, and they can't fix it, either. So you insert a 3.5mm plug into the dash and everything is fine. You live with that annoying inconvenience because in the grand scheme of things, it's a small trade-off for everything else you get from your new Mercedes and the fabulous sound of the system. A new Harmon-Kardon premium sound system is installed but you still get the ground hum unless you use the plug. You listen to other sound systems, but none of them compare to the one you have in your Mercedes with the plug in place.

What you WANT is for Mercedes and Harmon Kardon to get together and fix the blankety-blank ground hum problem. You aren't going to get rid of the Mercedes because of it; you're just going to live with the workaround and hope they (a) fix it soon or (b) fix it by the time you buy your next Mercedes.

Perhaps... just perhaps... you'd be insane to get rid of the best sound you ever heard being played in the best car you've ever had just because of a 3.5mm plug.

No offense intended. 🙂
Joelheck
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Jul 16, 2007

Re: UPDATE on ToneMatch, MegaSeg and MacBook

I do hope you realize it was meant in a light hearted manner of speaking 🙂

Many of us have come across annoying issues with various possessions in life.
I was sufficiently annoyed with my Jaguar XJS (a georgus convertible, with outrageous repair bills) that I tried a Vanden-Plas, (fortunately on lease) that could not keep the front end aligned and then years later to be happy with a simple Ford Escape. Life is good.
Media4u2
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Jan 31, 2008

Re: UPDATE on ToneMatch, MegaSeg and MacBook

Joel,

I'm glad you like your Escape. Life indeed IS good. Especially when you consider the alternative. 🙂
ptm
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Aug 10, 2012

Re: UPDATE on ToneMatch, MegaSeg and MacBook

Thanks for the update. Really appreciate you sharing your experience with this issue.

Thank you.
Media4u2
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Jan 31, 2008

Re: UPDATE on ToneMatch, MegaSeg and MacBook

quote:
Originally posted by PTM:
Thanks for the update. Really appreciate you sharing your experience with this issue.

Thank you.


No problem. Welcome to the Forum!
Lou_D
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Aug 29, 2007

Re: UPDATE on ToneMatch, MegaSeg and MacBook

Media,
A few years back I started a thread to see if anyone had an idea as to how I might be able to control the volume of my Ots DJ software separately from my T1 while running the T1 in Stereo.
After a not so small investment in time and money, I decided to go with a different mixer for stereo applications.
I respect you tenacity and thank you for sharing the experience.

quote:
Originally posted by Joelheck:
I was sufficiently annoyed with my Jaguar XJS (a georgus convertible, with outrageous repair bills) that I tried a Vanden-Plas, (fortunately on lease) that could not keep the front end aligned and then years later to be happy with a simple Ford Escape. Life is good.


Joel.... Say it isn't so!
I had my heart set on an Jaguar XJS for our Florida car. My preference would be a later model of the 6 cyl. Send me a PM if you have any warnings or suggestions.
Media4u2
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Jan 31, 2008

Re: UPDATE on ToneMatch, MegaSeg and MacBook

quote:
Originally posted by Lou 😧
Media,
A few years back I started a thread to see if anyone had an idea as to how I might be able to control the volume of my Ots DJ software separately from my T1 while running the T1 in Stereo.
After a not so small investment in time and money, I decided to go with a different mixer for stereo applications.
I respect you tenacity and thank you for sharing the experience.

quote:
Originally posted by Joelheck:
I was sufficiently annoyed with my Jaguar XJS (a georgus convertible, with outrageous repair bills) that I tried a Vanden-Plas, (fortunately on lease) that could not keep the front end aligned and then years later to be happy with a simple Ford Escape. Life is good.


Joel.... Say it isn't so!
I had my heart set on an Jaguar XJS for our Florida car. My preference would be a later model of the 6 cyl. Send me a PM if you have any warnings or suggestions.


Lou,

I'm not sure I want to be remembered for ”tenacity,“ but I suppose it can be a good thing if pointed in the right direction. 🙂

Actually, the reason I posted the entire ”Update“ thread here is at the request of the Bose engineer with whom I spoke on the phone last month. He said the thread would be seen by Bose engineers and that this issue would most likely go on someone's agenda. It took me a couple of weeks to actually get it posted (I didn't particularly want to re-live the whole mess by having to write it down), but at least it is here.

My first gig with the new MacBook Pro and its 3.0 USB port will be tomorrow (Sunday) at a ”Barn“ wedding. I've done four ”Barn“ weddings so far this year; it seems to be all the rage now. I'm wondering how long this trend will last.

Is anyone else finding an upswing in ”Barn“ weddings?
Joelheck
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Jul 16, 2007

Re: UPDATE on ToneMatch, MegaSeg and MacBook

quote:
Joel.... Say it isn't so!
I had my heart set on an Jaguar XJS for our Florida car. My preference would be a later model of the 6 cyl. Send me a PM if you have any warnings or suggestions.


Hi Lou,
I sent you a PM, but the XJS was a 12 cylinder, which required the British speaking technician, to look under the "Bonnet" and find the problems.