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Using T1 Tonematch to run FoH and monitor

Hi guys

I've been through this before and ST did explain it very well once but I have lost all the information, basically I have a gig coming up on the 6th April at a rather large Town Hall with around 180 people, all of whom will be seated for part of the performance and then ready to jive after their meal.

I shall be using my L1 M2 and B2 and as the venue is a fair size I had thought about placing the L1 front of house and using either one of my compacts or my S1 as a monitor but I just can't work out how to route the vocal, guitar and backing track channels to the AUX for monitoring purposes, the online description doesn't explain it very clearly.

The venue has a nice big stage which means I could probably place both my Compacts to the rear which will act as my monitors and also help drive sound to the front reaches of the venue leaving the L1M2 to project farther down the hall.

I will be using my T1 Tonematch and my usual set up is as follows...

Channel one - vocal

Channel two - guitar

Channel three - mandolin/banjo

Channel 4/5 - iPad with backing tracks

I know I would need to connect the monitor via the AUX on the T1 and I seem to recall ST once said I would need to route all those channels to the AUX but how do I do it and do I turn the output level of each channel to 100%?

Also, the venue doesn't have great acoustics, it's a typical town hall with a very high ceiling so I am aware that I am likely to encounter a few issues, is there anything I can do to help create a less reflected sound rather than just a noise bouncing around the room?

With this in mind it would probably be better to use my S1 as a monitor rather than the Compacts as the bigger sound produced from the stage might well create more echo issues in the room!

Any tips greatly appreciated.

Cheers guys

Geoff

 

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Re: Using T1 Tonematch to run FoH and monitor

We would run 2 L1 M2's w/ B2 in this situation, but I think a single L1 M2 w/B2 will handle the room you are describing.  Making a few assumptions here based on your description, as to style of music and desired volume.  The trick is to control overall volume and let the audience adjust their ears to you.  You can stilll have presence without being super loud  Try positioning your tower 8 to 10 feet behind you.  Pull way back on the reverb settiing and let the natural acoustics of the room do what they are going to do anyway.  Bose can handle that  .Again, don't try to drive too much volume. Regarding channel level out to aux for S1 monitors, edit each channel, set level out to aux at 12:00, or 50%. Adjust as needed.  The biggest problem our band has with same gear,/similar setting is excess volume due to backline guiitar amp.  If you can find that happy medium where you can hear yourself sing without competing with a guitar amp, you are good to go.  The room will take care of itself.  Just a humble opinion from someone with your same gear  Good luck and Cheers!

 

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Re: Using T1 Tonematch to run FoH and monitor

This is how I would do it, (Just my humble opinion)...

T1 Mixer + L1 Model 2 as FOH + S1 Pro as monitor

I use a splitter like the Split 6 shown below, it's always in my tool kit...

T1 main out to Split 6 input, Split six out to L1 Model 2 for Main FOH, Split 6 out to S1 Pro for monitor.

I use the same FOH mix as my monitor mix so I can hear / keep tabs of what I'm sending into the room. Also simple as I'm only dealing with a single mix...

 

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Re: Using T1 Tonematch to run FoH and monitor

Hi Geoff,

Geoff posted:

Hi guys

I've been through this before and ST did explain it very well once but I have lost all the information, basically I have a gig coming up on the 6th April at a rather large Town Hall with around 180 people, all of whom will be seated for part of the performance and then ready to jive after their meal.

Like FSBOI (above), I would probably keep things simple and use the L1 Model II behind the band and do without monitors. 

OR

If the vocalist REALLY wants a monitor, use the S1 Pro as a monitor just for the vocalist (pointed directly at the vocalist) at the lowest possible volume.

T1 to S1 Pro as a Monitor



I shall be using my L1 M2 and B2 and as the venue is a fair size I had thought about placing the L1 front of house and using either one of my compacts or my S1 as a monitor but I just can't work out how to route the vocal, guitar and backing track channels to the AUX for monitoring purposes, the online description doesn't explain it very clearly.

Here is how to set up the monitor mix using the Aux output.

T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine Aux Output
--?8T? Please click the picture for more details ?T8?--    

 



The venue has a nice big stage which means I could probably place both my Compacts to the rear which will act as my monitors and also help drive sound to the front reaches of the venue leaving the L1M2 to project farther down the hall.

Connect the T1 Aux Output to the first L1 Compact.

Connect the first L1 Compact LINE OUT to the second L1 Compact.

Click the picture to read the full article.





I will be using my T1 Tonematch and my usual set up is as follows...

Channel one - vocal

Channel two - guitar

Channel three - mandolin/banjo

Channel 4/5 - iPad with backing tracks

I know I would need to connect the monitor via the AUX on the T1 and I seem to recall ST once said I would need to route all those channels to the AUX but how do I do it and do I turn the output level of each channel to 100%?

See the article linked above to set up the Aux output. 

Fine Detail - for each channel.

Set the Tap Point to Post: After Fader

Set the Level to 50% 

You'll have to fine-tune the levels by ear. For example: If you need more vocal in the mix you could set the Channel one (vocal) level a little higher (say 60%)



Also, the venue doesn't have great acoustics, it's a typical town hall with a very high ceiling so I am aware that I am likely to encounter a few issues, is there anything I can do to help create a less reflected sound rather than just a noise bouncing around the room?

Keep the levels of the L1 Compacts and the L1 Model II as low as you can to avoid exciting the room.

The L1 Model II sends very little sound up toward the high ceiling. The L1 Compacts (or the S1 Pro if you use it) send more upward, so you want to keep the volume as low as you can.

Use as little reverb as you can. This won't be a problem with anything connected to the Aux ouput. There's no reverb on Aux.

With this in mind it would probably be better to use my S1 as a monitor rather than the Compacts as the bigger sound produced from the stage might well create more echo issues in the room!

Sure, you can use the S1 Pro instead of the L1 Compacts.

Here is the article I gave you last time we talked about this.

T1 to S1 Pro as a Monitor



Any tips greatly appreciated.

Cheers guys

Geoff

If you use the S1 Pro as the monitor, it has reverb if you need it. 

S1 Pro or L1 Compacts for monitors?

It depends:

If the monitor is primarily for the vocalist, you could use the S1 Pro and put it close to the vocalist. Put it on the floor in the horizontal position. This gives you the tightest horizontal dispersion.

If the monitor(s) are for everybody then you can use the L1 Compacts and keep the volume low.

ST

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Re: Using T1 Tonematch to run FoH and monitor

FSBOI posted:

We would run 2 L1 M2's w/ B2 in this situation, but I think a single L1 M2 w/B2 will handle the room you are describing.  Making a few assumptions here based on your description, as to style of music and desired volume.  The trick is to control overall volume and let the audience adjust their ears to you.  You can stilll have presence without being super loud  Try positioning your tower 8 to 10 feet behind you.  Pull way back on the reverb settiing and let the natural acoustics of the room do what they are going to do anyway.  Bose can handle that  .Again, don't try to drive too much volume. Regarding channel level out to aux for S1 monitors, edit each channel, set level out to aux at 12:00, or 50%. Adjust as needed.  The biggest problem our band has with same gear,/similar setting is excess volume due to backline guiitar amp.  If you can find that happy medium where you can hear yourself sing without competing with a guitar amp, you are good to go.  The room will take care of itself.  Just a humble opinion from someone with your same gear  Good luck and Cheers!

 

Thanks for the info mate. 

ST agrees with your remedy so to keep it simple I think I will just place the tower right at the back of the stage, it's deep enough to be ten feet behind me.

Geoff

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Re: Using T1 Tonematch to run FoH and monitor

Harry posted:

This is how I would do it, (Just my humble opinion)...

T1 Mixer + L1 Model 2 as FOH + S1 Pro as monitor

I use a splitter like the Split 6 shown below, it's always in my tool kit...

T1 main out to Split 6 input, Split six out to L1 Model 2 for Main FOH, Split 6 out to S1 Pro for monitor.

I use the same FOH mix as my monitor mix so I can hear / keep tabs of what I'm sending into the room. Also simple as I'm only dealing with a single mix...

 

Whirlwind SPLIT6 - 1x6 Line Splitter

Hi Harry

Thanks for the tip.

Those Split 6 things aren't available here in the UK but from what you describe they sound like a handy bit of kit to keep in the toolbox.

I can order one from the USA but chances are it won't be here before the gig!

Good idea though for future use so I will definitely look into it.

Geoff

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Re: Using T1 Tonematch to run FoH and monitor

ST posted:

Hi Geoff,

Geoff posted:

Hi guys

I've been through this before and ST did explain it very well once but I have lost all the information, basically I have a gig coming up on the 6th April at a rather large Town Hall with around 180 people, all of whom will be seated for part of the performance and then ready to jive after their meal.

Like FSBOI (above), I would probably keep things simple and use the L1 Model II behind the band and do without monitors. 

OR

If the vocalist REALLY wants a monitor, use the S1 Pro as a monitor just for the vocalist (pointed directly at the vocalist) at the lowest possible volume.

T1 to S1 Pro as a Monitor



I shall be using my L1 M2 and B2 and as the venue is a fair size I had thought about placing the L1 front of house and using either one of my compacts or my S1 as a monitor but I just can't work out how to route the vocal, guitar and backing track channels to the AUX for monitoring purposes, the online description doesn't explain it very clearly.

Here is how to set up the monitor mix using the Aux output.

T1 ToneMatch® Audio Engine Aux Output
--?8T? Please click the picture for more details ?T8?--    

 



The venue has a nice big stage which means I could probably place both my Compacts to the rear which will act as my monitors and also help drive sound to the front reaches of the venue leaving the L1M2 to project farther down the hall.

Connect the T1 Aux Output to the first L1 Compact.

Connect the first L1 Compact LINE OUT to the second L1 Compact.

Click the picture to read the full article.





I will be using my T1 Tonematch and my usual set up is as follows...

Channel one - vocal

Channel two - guitar

Channel three - mandolin/banjo

Channel 4/5 - iPad with backing tracks

I know I would need to connect the monitor via the AUX on the T1 and I seem to recall ST once said I would need to route all those channels to the AUX but how do I do it and do I turn the output level of each channel to 100%?

See the article linked above to set up the Aux output. 

Fine Detail - for each channel.

Set the Tap Point to Post: After Fader

Set the Level to 50% 

You'll have to fine-tune the levels by ear. For example: If you need more vocal in the mix you could set the Channel one (vocal) level a little higher (say 60%)



Also, the venue doesn't have great acoustics, it's a typical town hall with a very high ceiling so I am aware that I am likely to encounter a few issues, is there anything I can do to help create a less reflected sound rather than just a noise bouncing around the room?

Keep the levels of the L1 Compacts and the L1 Model II as low as you can to avoid exciting the room.

The L1 Model II sends very little sound up toward the high ceiling. The L1 Compacts (or the S1 Pro if you use it) send more upward, so you want to keep the volume as low as you can.

Use as little reverb as you can. This won't be a problem with anything connected to the Aux ouput. There's no reverb on Aux.

With this in mind it would probably be better to use my S1 as a monitor rather than the Compacts as the bigger sound produced from the stage might well create more echo issues in the room!

Sure, you can use the S1 Pro instead of the L1 Compacts.

Here is the article I gave you last time we talked about this.

T1 to S1 Pro as a Monitor



Any tips greatly appreciated.

Cheers guys

Geoff

If you use the S1 Pro as the monitor, it has reverb if you need it. 

S1 Pro or L1 Compacts for monitors?

It depends:

If the monitor is primarily for the vocalist, you could use the S1 Pro and put it close to the vocalist. Put it on the floor in the horizontal position. This gives you the tightest horizontal dispersion.

If the monitor(s) are for everybody then you can use the L1 Compacts and keep the volume low.

ST

Hi ST

Great info once again.

I think I am inclined to agree that keeping it simple is the key.

The stage at the venue is deep enough for the L1M2 to be ten feet behind me.

I often think about investing in a second B2 with a pack lite for these really big venues and maybe popping a second B2 on the opposite side of the stage to help lift the bottom end but not really sure it would be appropriate for my style of playing.

The B2 on it's own gives the kick of two angry mules anyway!

Would I gain anything from investing in a second L1M2 system and using two at the bigger venues?

I seem to recall somewhere in the past hearing that two columns would not double the power or projection it will simply create a louder stage sound.

Surely two systems would project farther than one?

I should have made it clear in my initial post that I play solo and not with a band, my description makes it sound like a band.

I am doing vocals, guitar and also mandolin and banjo along to backing tracks.

My style is traditional American Country and 50's/60's so it doesn't need to be over loud just powerful enough to fill the venue.

Some of my material is soft and relaxing, I do a Jim Reeves Tribute so power and clarity are key and I do need to hear myself in order to recreate the same tones that Reeves produced which is why I considered using some sort of stand alone monitor but I think I need to start having confidence in my current gear and just setting up for a large venue the same way I would for a medium sized place and let the natural room acoustics do the rest.

Geoff

 

 

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Re: Using T1 Tonematch to run FoH and monitor

Hi Geoff,

Geoff posted:

Hi ST

Great info once again.

I think I am inclined to agree that keeping it simple is the key.

The stage at the venue is deep enough for the L1M2 to be ten feet behind me.

I often think about investing in a second B2 with a pack lite for these really big venues and maybe popping a second B2 on the opposite side of the stage to help lift the bottom end but not really sure it would be appropriate for my style of playing.

Adding a second B2 will give you more low-end support (frequencies below 200 Hz).



https://i.warosu.org/data/jp/img/0096/07/1345432075476.jpg

The chart above is fun, but for another way to understand the difference you might experience by adding a second B2: try flipping the B2 bass level switch from the minus to the plus positions.





The B2 on it's own gives the kick of two angry mules anyway!

Would I gain anything from investing in a second L1M2 system and using two at the bigger venues?

I seem to recall somewhere in the past hearing that two columns would not double the power or projection it will simply create a louder stage sound.

Surely two systems would project farther than one?

That's a big topic. Please see this article: Two L1 Systems



I should have made it clear in my initial post that I play solo and not with a band, my description makes it sound like a band.

I am doing vocals, guitar and also mandolin and banjo along to backing tracks.

My style is traditional American Country and 50's/60's so it doesn't need to be over loud just powerful enough to fill the venue.

Some of my material is soft and relaxing, I do a Jim Reeves Tribute so power and clarity are key and I do need to hear myself in order to recreate the same tones that Reeves produced which is why I considered using some sort of stand alone monitor but I think I need to start having confidence in my current gear and just setting up for a large venue the same way I would for a medium sized place and let the natural room acoustics do the rest.

Geoff

Nice to get to know you better Geoff,

ST

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Re: Using T1 Tonematch to run FoH and monitor

Hi ST

I did a gig tonight and flipped the toggle switch on the B2 at the different settings and found the maximum actually gives more than enough bottom end for my style so I don't actually think it is necessary to double up on the B2.

I think one is more than adequate.

I have considered buying the smaller B1 for the gigs that don't really require much bottom end cos I find the B2 even at it's minimum is often a bit too much in some venues, perhaps a B1 would cover those sort of places better.

Always nice to have one in the boot so to speak!

The portability of a B1 would certainly please the fiancee'.....!!!

Am I right in thinking that in a venue which has poor acoustics it's probably a good idea to reduce the low end?

Being on a hollow wooden stage will add to the problems anyway as the low end will simply rumble so I am tempted to take a thick slab of carpet in with me and place the B2 on that to help soak the rumble.

Thank you for putting me right about the addition of a second L1M2, for my purposes I have decided it probably isn't going to benefit me and to be honest I only get a few "big gigs" each year, most of my regular venues I can do with a Compact and even the S1 and the L1M2 only comes out for the more noisier venues, and I don't do many of those!

Once again thank you for the info, always a pleasure to get your tips.

Geoff

 

 

 

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Re: Using T1 Tonematch to run FoH and monitor

Hi Geoff,

Geoff posted:

Hi ST

I did a gig tonight and flipped the toggle switch on the B2 at the different settings and found the maximum actually gives more than enough bottom end for my style so I don't actually think it is necessary to double up on the B2.

I think one is more than adequate.

Okay, that makes things simpler doesn't it.



I have considered buying the smaller B1 for the gigs that don't really require much bottom end cos I find the B2 even at it's minimum is often a bit too much in some venues, perhaps a B1 would cover those sort of places better.

The B2 with the switch set to - (minus) is similar to the output of the B1.



Always nice to have one in the boot so to speak!

The portability of a B1 would certainly please the fiancee'.....!!!

Is the fiancée the roadée?



Am I right in thinking that in a venue which has poor acoustics it's probably a good idea to reduce the low end?

That's too much of a generalization, but it's an easy leap.  Is there too much low end?

  • Use the B2 switch
  • Turn down the zEQ on the T1 channels that are most affected 


Being on a hollow wooden stage will add to the problems anyway as the low end will simply rumble so I am tempted to take a thick slab of carpet in with me and place the B2 on that to help soak the rumble.

Another approach is to get a longer NL4 (four conductor) speaker cable for the B2.  If it's long enough you can put the B2 directly on the floor.

Thank you for putting me right about the addition of a second L1M2, for my purposes I have decided it probably isn't going to benefit me and to be honest I only get a few "big gigs" each year, most of my regular venues I can do with a Compact and even the S1 and the L1M2 only comes out for the more noisier venues, and I don't do many of those!

I'm glad the Two L1 Systems article was helpful.

You've got plenty of Bose gear. It's great to have options isn't it.



Once again thank you for the info, always a pleasure to get your tips.

Geoff

Happy to help.

ST