Volume level for Microphone

[prakashwadhwani]

@Pete The Busker posted:

Hi @hypersonicshypersonics - I also have a similar experience to Chet. Using an SM58 straight into the Bose S1 was disappointing even at 100%.

I currently busk using a small Swamp UM-66 mixer which is USB powered by a powerbank battery. Vocals are panned left, guitar panned right and I then run two XLR cables to the XLR jacks in the S1. The S1 volume knobs are set about 50% and I balance the vocals and guitar on the mixer. The mixer has a master Output which is very handy - I just use this to control the volume depending on where I’m playing on the day.

By all means try the Tonematch, but I also have this set to OFF. Overall, I find the S1 is superb - great sound and 12 plus hours of battery life. The mixer powerbank lasts over 12 hrs as well.

Pete the Busker (Sydney, Australia)

Hi Pete! 

Since you're using the Mixer (which has inbuilt fx) and not using the tonematch (or reverb) on the S1 ... any particular reason you pan your vocals left & guitar right on the Mixer? Can't they just stay at centered? I'm assuming here you're making all your gain, eq & fx adjustments on your mixer. Can't you then output just a single XLR to your S1?  

[CityFolk]

Prakash i’ll chime in even though your question was directed to another Pete. 

By panning the channels from the mixer into 2 S1 channels, it leaves you with one final point of control between the vocals and instruments at the S1 point. In my case, I do use the Tonematch switch as a final EQ and S1 reverb so separating the vocals into one channel and guitars in the other gives me extra flexibility. 

If not using the S1s ToneMatch or reverb and just using the mixer for all that, then it may not make sense to use two outs from the mixer. Just run one out to the S1. That certainly is simpler and allows you to centralize control in the mixer. 

[prakashwadhwani]

@CityFolk posted:

Prakash i’ll chime in even though your question was directed to another Pete. 

By panning the channels from the mixer into 2 S1 channels, it leaves you with one final point of control between the vocals and instruments at the S1 point. In my case, I do use the Tonematch switch as a final EQ and S1 reverb so separating the vocals into one channel and guitars in the other gives me extra flexibility. 

If not using the S1s ToneMatch or reverb and just using the mixer for all that, then it may not make sense to use two outs from the mixer. Just run one out to the S1. That certainly is simpler and allows you to centralize control in the mixer. 

Thx for the reply @CityFolk. This is precisely why I didn't direct my question to you or @Chet. (coz you mentioned you're using the Tonematch & Reverb of the S1).

I don't keep the S1 near me (ie within hand's reach), so I guess I'm good with the way I'm going currently, which is: TS/TRS Aux out from my Mixer to the S1 XLR-in. I don't use Tonematch or Reverb, and keep the S1 Volume at between 10 & 11 'o clock. From then on, all my operations are from the Mixer.

I get to balance each channel's gain individually via the Aux on each channel, plus a Master Aux control to increase/decrease the overall signal strength sent to the S1. My FOH is balanced separately via the channel and Master faders. The S1 is primarily used as a Monitor by me ... but on the rare occasion that I'm using it as a FOH speaker, I still stick to my above "Aux" routine simply for uniformity & muscle memory.

Thx again for your reply buddy. In case you feel there's a better way for me to do it, you, or anyone else please feel free to chime in. 

[CityFolk]

That’s a great approach for your situation Prakash. I like that you centralize you’re control in one spot. My approach does depend on having some control split between the mixer and the S1(s), but the control setting at the S1 level is fairly static that doesn’t change much. I think the more central control the better. 

[Busker Pete]

Hi Prakash - you are quite right, I could output a single XLR to the mixer. But for vocals I use the EQ’s on the mixer (‘cos they are graduated and easier to see and set) and reverb on the S1 (just set at 50%). The guitar gets all of it’s effects from a multifunction pedal, with the S1 reverb set to 0. If I could dispense with the mixer I would, but what it gives me is  1. More gain on the mic because there just wasn’t enough for an sm58 mic (apparently!) and   2. A master volume for both vocals and guitar which I find very, very handy. ST is probably pulling his hair out by now, but the beauty of the S1 is it’s simplicity and it’s versatility, and a separate mixer can be as big or small as your band.

[CityFolk]

One thing to note about the 1002B mixer main outs. On mine, which is relatively new, the main outs are balanced TRS. There is a discrepancy between the specs in the User manual which state the main outs are TS, but the printed Quick Start spec sheet that came with the mixer states TRS. I’ve confirmed they are TRS as I’ve successfully used a TRS to XLR cable into the S1s.

@Chet out of curiosity does your 1002B have TRS outs and the specs mentioned in the manual are just a typo? (BTW I downloaded the full user manual in PDF form from the web.) Just was wondering if Behringer made a change along the way or it’s just a documentation error.

[prakashwadhwani]

@Pete The Busker posted:

Hi Prakash - you are quite right, I could output a single XLR to the mixer. But for vocals I use the EQ’s on the mixer (‘cos they are graduated and easier to see and set) and reverb on the S1 (just set at 50%). The guitar gets all of it’s effects from a multifunction pedal, with the S1 reverb set to 0. If I could dispense with the mixer I would, but what it gives me is  1. More gain on the mic because there just wasn’t enough for an sm58 mic (apparently!) and   2. A master volume for both vocals and guitar which I find very, very handy. ST is probably pulling his hair out by now, but the beauty of the S1 is it’s simplicity and it’s versatility, and a separate mixer can be as big or small as your band.

Bingo!!  You're using the S1 Reverb which totally justifies your approach!

I ALWAYS use my S1 via a Mixer ... been a year now since i owned it. I get total control (centralized as @CityFolk put it) and terrific gain. So far never compulsorily needed a 100% battery powered rig. Having said that, I am on the lookout for a good *Native battery-powered Mixer* but with in-built fx. I'm very partial towards Yamaha (owning 4 of their Mixers). I'm not considering a Mixer powered via a Power Bank as my need isn't dire.

If any of you have any pointers, please do share.

[ChetDude]

@CityFolk posted:

One thing to note about the 1002B mixer main outs. On mine, which is relatively new, the main outs are balanced TRS. There is a discrepancy between the specs in the User manual which state the main outs are TS, but the printed Quick Start spec sheet that came with the mixer states TRS. I’ve confirmed they are TRS as I’ve successfully used a TRS to XLR cable into the S1s.

@Chet out of curiosity does your 1002B have TRS outs and the specs mentioned in the manual are just a typo? (BTW I downloaded the full user manual in PDF form from the web.) Just was wondering if Behringer made a change along the way or it’s just a documentation error.

I guess I read that the outputs of the 1002b are TRS/Balanced in the quick start then - although I'm looking at page 10 of the manual and under specifications they list the outputs as '1/4" TRS Jack, electronically balanced'. 

So I use TRS to XLR cables (since I have TONS of those and NO TRS to TRS cables of any length) to go from the output of the Behringer to the S1.  Panned as you described: Vocals to one channel, guitars to the other and then I use another cable to take the Aux out of Bose #1 to the input of Bose #2.

Another piece of the puzzle I left out is that I RARELY have to move the input level controls past the detent ("1/2 way").  In the aforementioned setup at the Farmers Market with the QSC mixer (Left and Right outputs to Bose #1 and Bose #2 direct, using XLR to XLR balanced cables) I find the Bose levels set at the detent and the mixer at about 10-12dB down fills that 1/4 acre enough to allow those who wish to hear to hear (and those who wish to converse, to converse and for 'commerce' to proceed with auditory comfort) with the proof that we often get applause from the last rank of canopies and are rarely asked to "turn it down".  The perfect balance.

At the occasional gigs with a louder "ambience", I'll bump the Bose level a little bit.

[CityFolk]

Thanks Chet. Since I downloaded the full manual, it could very well  be out of date. Just good to hear the main outs are TRS balanced. 

I concur that with the mixer and the S1s I have plenty of volume and headroom to go louder if needed (which I rarely do). It’s a very sweet setup with the S1s especially when run on battery power across the board. I hesitate to use power from a generator at the various outdoor farmers markets not knowing how good or safe they are to our equipment.

At one market, the generator kept blowing a fuse because they had too much running off it. But guess what? I didn’t care! ?? Ran off all battery. The DJ who was setting up to play after us was VERY interested in our setup as he was dead in the water until they fixed the issue. Also, I wasn’t worried that the off and on again issue with the power was damaging my precious L1! ??

[oldmachead]

@CityFolk posted:

One thing to note about the 1002B mixer main outs. On mine, which is relatively new, the main outs are balanced TRS. There is a discrepancy between the specs in the User manual which state the main outs are TS, but the printed Quick Start spec sheet that came with the mixer states TRS. I’ve confirmed they are TRS as I’ve successfully used a TRS to XLR cable into the S1s.

@Chet out of curiosity does your 1002B have TRS outs and the specs mentioned in the manual are just a typo? (BTW I downloaded the full user manual in PDF form from the web.) Just was wondering if Behringer made a change along the way or it’s just a documentation error.

@CityFolk Thanks for explaining this discrepancy (potential?). When I got my 1002B (around a year ago I think) I read the manual very carefully and was convinced that the main out was TS. I didn't find any documentation mentioning TRS outs ... yet the Pro-Audio guy at my music store told me that I could use TRS. Which had me puzzled. I will pull the mixer out of the closet and try this out ... (I had to go back to the documentation just now which was a good refresher and has provoked me to try the mixer out after I charge my 9v batteries!).

Cheers,