ChetDude
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May 10, 2018

Re: Volume level for Microphone

@troubador posted:

@CityFolk Thanks for explaining this discrepancy (potential?). When I got my 1002B (around a year ago I think) I read the manual very carefully and was convinced that the main out was TS. I didn't find any documentation mentioning TRS outs ... yet the Pro-Audio guy at my music store told me that I could use TRS. Which had me puzzled. I will pull the mixer out of the closet and try this out ... (I had to go back to the documentation just now which was a good refresher and has provoked me to try the mixer out after I charge my 9v batteries!).

Cheers,

There's an unintended discrepancy in the manual.

On page 6,  the description of inputs/outputs say Main Outputs "Connect to the inputs of a power amp ... using 1/4" TS cables".  Obviously assuming that the inputs of the power amp are unbalanced...which is NOT always the case.

On page 10, Specifications, they tell us that the outputs are "1/4" TRS jack, Electronically Balanced"

My experience has been that the latter is true.

CityFolk
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Re: Volume level for Microphone

I just used my 1002B with 2 S1s at an outdoor retirement community gig today. Worked like a charm. TRS out to XLR into the master S1.

We had to play in 4 different locations throughout the facility during the 4 hours this morning so it was a somewhat physically tough gig to setup and tear down that many times, but worth it to elevate the spirits of the folks hunkered down there due to Covid19. 

Having everything running on battery power was just so cool. We couldn’t have done it without the S1/1002B combo!

@troubador by all means give that 1002B a try. I think/hope you’ll like it  

 

hypersonics
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Re: Volume level for Microphone

Bingo!!  You're using the S1 Reverb which totally justifies your approach!

I ALWAYS use my S1 via a Mixer ... been a year now since i owned it. I get total control (centralized as @CityFolk put it) and terrific gain. So far never compulsorily needed a 100% battery powered rig. Having said that, I am on the lookout for a good *Native battery-powered Mixer* but with in-built fx. I'm very partial towards Yamaha (owning 4 of their Mixers). I'm not considering a Mixer powered via a Power Bank as my need isn't dire.

If any of you have any pointers, please do share.

I'm thinking of getting a Yamaha MG06X, which has 6 inputs (2 XLRs for microphones). However, was wondering since it has L and R for XLR outputs, how do I connect this to the Bose S1 Pro? Assuming that I will be connecting Rode M1 to one of the inputs on the MG06X.

CityFolk
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Re: Volume level for Microphone

@hypersonics if you just have the Rode mic as input, connect the mic to channel 1/L  and connect the XLR main out L(eft) into channel 1 of the S1. Not sure if the 1/4” main out are balanced TRS type connections. If so, you could use either the XLR or the TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) 1/4” outputs. The essential point is to run a balanced connection from the mixer to the S1. It will give you a more solid signal and you can run a cable longer than 20 feet without losing signal strength. 

If you input another mic or whatever into the 2/R channel, then run a cable from the R out into channel 2 of the S1.

To start, I’d turn the reverb off on the S1 (obviously if you use the mixer’s reverb), position the EQ Knobs on the S1 to flat (middle position) and ToneMatch to mic, and set volume to no more than 50% (12 o’clock) to start. (Feel free to turn it up more later after you experiment with the mixer volume levels. You may find you need to reduce the volume a bit on the S1.) Then make the rest of your EQ and volume adjustments on the mixer. Make any fine tuning EQ adjustments on the S1 after you’ve exhausted the adjustments on the mixer. Point being you want to go to one place to make your adjustments rather than fiddling back and forth. In addition, the mixer will probably be more accessible to you during a performance.

Experiment with the ToneMatch switch setting, trying it off as well to see what you like best in terms of the sound. 

Also keep in mind the S1 automatically sets its EQ depending on the position it’s played in: on its side in monitor style, tilted back busking style, straight up, or on a speaker pole. Each position will have specific EQ characteristics which might affect what you’ve set on the mixer. Personally, we use the S1 on speaker pole as that gives us the best overall projection into a playing space (especially outdoors). But that is strictly subjective and based on your needs. Again, experiment a bit to find what works best for your situation.

Do let us know what you come up with.

ChetDude
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Re: Volume level for Microphone

Great information Cityfolk!

The only thing I'd add is that I find that I add just a bit of treble boost and bass rolloff on my S1 channels in most situations when they're on stands.  The "standard" EQ while on stands seems a bit boomy to me compared to their EQ when tilted back on the floor..

For smaller indoor gigs - like 50 people in a library, I liked the S1s on the floor on either side of us tilted back.  Very clean and filled the space well with easy monitoring -- 2 vocals, 2 guitars...

CityFolk
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Re: Volume level for Microphone

Agreed Chet. I too do a slight rolloff of bass. Sometimes I boost the treble too but it can depend on the room or playing space. Always experiment and flavor to taste! ??

With Covid19, we haven’t done a “cozy” gig inside as yet. When we do, I’ll give the tilt back position a try. Without stands, that’ll be one less thing to carry around!

 

hypersonics
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Re: Volume level for Microphone

@CityFolk posted:

@hypersonics if you just have the Rode mic as input, connect the mic to channel 1/L  and connect the XLR main out L(eft) into channel 1 of the S1. Not sure if the 1/4” main out are balanced TRS type connections. If so, you could use either the XLR or the TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) 1/4” outputs. The essential point is to run a balanced connection from the mixer to the S1. It will give you a more solid signal and you can run a cable longer than 20 feet without losing signal strength. 

If you input another mic or whatever into the 2/R channel, then run a cable from the R out into channel 2 of the S1.

To start, I’d turn the reverb off on the S1 (obviously if you use the mixer’s reverb), position the EQ Knobs on the S1 to flat (middle position) and ToneMatch to mic, and set volume to no more than 50% (12 o’clock) to start. (Feel free to turn it up more later after you experiment with the mixer volume levels. You may find you need to reduce the volume a bit on the S1.) Then make the rest of your EQ and volume adjustments on the mixer. Make any fine tuning EQ adjustments on the S1 after you’ve exhausted the adjustments on the mixer. Point being you want to go to one place to make your adjustments rather than fiddling back and forth. In addition, the mixer will probably be more accessible to you during a performance.

Experiment with the ToneMatch switch setting, trying it off as well to see what you like best in terms of the sound. 

Also keep in mind the S1 automatically sets its EQ depending on the position it’s played in: on its side in monitor style, tilted back busking style, straight up, or on a speaker pole. Each position will have specific EQ characteristics which might affect what you’ve set on the mixer. Personally, we use the S1 on speaker pole as that gives us the best overall projection into a playing space (especially outdoors). But that is strictly subjective and based on your needs. Again, experiment a bit to find what works best for your situation.

Do let us know what you come up with.

Thanks @CityFolk From what I see based on the images, the two XLR outs on the Yamaha MG06X says they are balanced outputs. Also, the specks indicate that the XLR outputs are balanced. So, I should able to connect a XLR from say, L or R on to the Bose S1 input 1 isn't?

ChetDude
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Re: Volume level for Microphone

@hypersonics posted:

Thanks @CityFolk From what I see based on the images, the two XLR outs on the Yamaha MG06X says they are balanced outputs. Also, the specks indicate that the XLR outputs are balanced. So, I should able to connect a XLR from say, L or R on to the Bose S1 input 1 isn't?

It's hard to tell from the Yamaha MG06X manual whether the 1/4" jacks are balanced outputs or not but the XLR outputs are for sure.   So a regular balanced XLR cable ("microphone cable") from the mixer to the 2 channels of the S1 (as Cityfolk descibed) will be fine.  You'll probably need to set the output at quite a low level (maybe one light or less) to make sure you don't overload the inputs on the S1.

CityFolk
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Re: Volume level for Microphone

@hypersonics FYI by definition XLR plugs are always balanced. Yes, XLR from left or right from the mixer will work fine into either XLR channels into the S1. Just to be clear, from what I gather from the mixer’s manual, if you plug a mic into the L channel, you would run a XLR cable from the main out L into channel 1 or 2 of the S1. The mixer’s channel 1/L is locked into main out L. Similarly, mixer channel 2/R is locked into main out R. 

Chet brings up a good point on keeping the volume low on the S1 to start off with until you get a better idea on how hot a signal you’re getting out of the mixer. I doubt if you’ll ever need to go beyond 50% on the S1. Probably setting the volume to 10 or 11 o’clock is all you’ll need would be my guess.

BTW if you’re interested in learning more about balanced vs unbalanced input/output, check out the info on this Bose wiki site.

ChetDude
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Re: Volume level for Microphone

@CityFolk posted:

@hypersonics FYI by definition XLR plugs are always balanced. Yes, XLR from left or right from the mixer will work fine into either XLR channels into the S1. Just to be clear, from what I gather from the mixer’s manual, if you plug a mic into the L channel, you would run a XLR cable from the main out L into channel 1 or 2 of the S1. The mixer’s channel 1/L is locked into main out L. Similarly, mixer channel 2/R is locked into main out R. 

Chet brings up a good point on keeping the volume low on the S1 to start off with until you get a better idea on how hot a signal you’re getting out of the mixer. I doubt if you’ll ever need to go beyond 50% on the S1. Probably setting the volume to 10 or 11 o’clock is all you’ll need would be my guess.

BTW if you’re interested in learning more about balanced vs unbalanced input/output, check out the info on this Bose wiki site.

Slight correction: This Yamaha mixer appears to be similar to my Mackie 402 - there's a switch (mono/stereo switch) between the 2 left-most channel faders that will either route Ch. 1 to left output only with Ch. 2 to the right output only  OR allow you to mix the two channels as mono output into both the left and right outputs.

If you're going to route the mic to one channel of the S1 and the guitar to the other for separate processing in the S1 (as described by CityFolk), you'll want to make sure that switch is set to Stereo.