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lkingston
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Nov 14, 2017

Re: "Chaining" TWO Compacts

Running two Compacts is fine phase wise. Most sound guys have a mono mix distributed with two speaker stacks, one on each side of the stage. This is fine phase wise and so is using two compact in the same way. So is using to larger L1 systems.
ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

Re: "Chaining" TWO Compacts

Hi folks,

For the sake of people who have not read through the complete thread, here are a couple of links to notes about the stereo / mono questions; notes written by the designers and engineers at Bose who created the L1® systems.

Dual Mono

Stereo / Mono / Distributed Systems
lkingston
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Nov 14, 2017

Re: "Chaining" TWO Compacts

OK, a little more thought has got me wondering about this.

Standard PAs use "dual mono" all the time, even when they have separate stereo channels. It is common practice to pan everything center so that the audience on the left doesn't miss what is happening on stage right and vice versa. This lead me to believe that you could do the same thing with a Bose L1 system.

An L1 system is not a regular PA however. Regular PAs have high frequency drivers that have a narrow span where people can hear them. Thus, someone in house left is not hearing things panned to the other side of the stage. With an L1 system, everyone is hearing everyting however. People on the left side of the audience are hearing what is coming out of the right speaker stack. This would lead to phase issues that you wouldn't have with more directional speakers.

Is it possible that maybe a little delay in the input of the second L1 would be preferable to a simple Y connection between two L1s? That way instead of weird phase cancellations, the second speaker would sound a little more like a slight echo and maybe be "better sounding". That would explain the earlier post about daisy chaining sounding better than a Y connection.

I am quite interested in this since I am contemplating a second L1 Compact.
Kramster
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Dec 30, 2003

Re: "Chaining" TWO Compacts

+1 on a second compact.. reading all I can.
Mark-at-Bose
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May 13, 2018

Re: "Chaining" TWO Compacts

quote:
Originally posted by Laurence:
Is it possible that maybe a little delay in the input of the second L1 would be preferable to a simple Y connection between two L1s? That way instead of weird phase cancellations, the second speaker would sound a little more like a slight echo and maybe be "better sounding". That would explain the earlier post about daisy chaining sounding better than a Y connection.


I am not a sound/acoustic engineer and I hope one responds to correct or confirm my theory, but I think this delay, depending on how long it is, would simply displace the potential phase interference to another location.
Dan_Cornett
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Jun 6, 2005

Re: "Chaining" TWO Compacts

re: "Y" vs "daisy-chain" vs "delay"

In theory, as Mark-at-Bose states, a simple delay will simply "re-position" where the phase-mixing (both cancellations and reinforcement) occurs.

However, in practice, there are so many other factors which can make a difference, such as:
  • the lack of uniformity of the room's surfaces and shapes, particularly when the two sources are separated by more than a few feet. And that includes room furnishings -- and people.
  • the relative volume of the two sources and the differences between those two sources ... with the L1's, this is usually, however, a rather insignificant factor.
  • the type of music and the 'expectations' of the listeners.

    An example of the last point: using headphones (minimizing the first two issues), two mono separate piano sounds (or a stereo piano) mixed to mono can sound really "bad" (thin, uneven through the range). Introducing a delay to one of those two inputs can make that "mix" acceptable -- and all that delay is doing is shifting the frequencies which cancel or reinforce. It's purely a psychoacoustic -- but real -- effect.

    The bottom line: if using two 'mono' sources doesn't sound good, try something a bit different in the treatment of one of the two 'sources' ... let your ears be the judge.
muffin1
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Jan 12, 2010

Re: "Chaining" TWO Compacts

Just a quick update. I am using 2 L-1 Compacts in sort of stereo mode, ie. everything panned to center. I have not experienced any noticeable problems with this arrangement.

I have put as many as 5 musicians (including bass,keyboards, and drums) and several singers throught this and through my L-1 Classic PAS as well. I never use the presets, period. It has been all good. Of course, we don't try to damage ears with our sound levels.

Outdoors, I have used the L-1 Classic (2 bass modules)out front at center stage, and two compacts behind the performers on either side. This lets us hear quite well, and adds some to the front of the house sound. The first time I did this, the people who had booked the band were amazed at the clarity and the quality of the sound. It was plenty loud for those out front, and the quality of the sound was remarkable. There were about 500 people gathered to listen.

I would like to have a second L-1 Classic to complete my little setup. That would give me two L-1 towers, four bass modules, and the two compact syatems. Pretty versatile setup, that.

On a different note, I prefer the Classic to the Model I or Model II, because it is quite versatile. There is a whole world of things you can do with the Classic that you cannot do with either of the newer versions. Bose does not say too much about those possibilities, but they are there. Very versatile system, but evidently a bit too complicated for many users. A little digging and some experimentation could prove to be very valuable for those who own the Classic.

The tonematch thing was, I think, in response to the retail practice of selling the buyer a small mixer to fascilitate the use of the L-1. This was commonly done buy some of the knowledgeable techs who sold them early on. Increased sales quite dramatically in some instances.

The people that I have talked to from Bose, had varying opinions and in some cases opposite views concerning a number of points. The various threads here seem to illustrate that quite well. Who is correct doesn't seem to be an issue, as they pretty much acknowledge each other's views as being valid. No stepping on toes.

I feel that if you are spending the kind of money that these systems require, there should be clear, concise and freely available information that is consistent, from all those who represent Bose. "I guess," "you may,"perhaps," "try for yourself and report back," and a lot of ambiguity is self-defeating. It is a great line of products, but could we all get on the same page?

Go well,

Muffin
Oldghm
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May 25, 2004

Re: "Chaining" TWO Compacts

quote:
Originally posted by muffin:

but could we all get on the same page?



Hi muffin,

Since the beginning of time, "get(ting) on the same page" has been the quest of Kings and Emporers, Prime Ministers and Presidents, CEOs and Managers, Department heads and Forum contributers. Invariably, as we go down the road of life, someone will zig and the reaction is a zag.

The design and building of the L1 system was a zig in the path of sound equipment. Designed for individual use, with presets to simplify setup and insure quality sound, some users still choose to zag.

It is impractical if not impossible to be clear and concise with all information disseminated here. Opinions, knowledge, communication skills are variables, and there is no device to equalize the information available, or the minds that recieve it.

What is practical for some, "I guess", is impractical for others. We all start at the point of opening up a box that contains a L1, and we immeadiately diverge, each going off on our own artistic path. When we stumble and seek help it often comes from a direction we aren't looking in, or from a path we don't choose to follow.

"Perhaps" the most difficult part of being here is separating fact from opinion or in some cases outright fiction. That is reason enough at times for someone to say, "try for yourself and report back". "You may", or may not, realize that "try(ing) for yourself and report(ing) back", is exactly what you have done with your first three posts here.

I suspect my response here will be interpreted as ambiguous by some, I hope you will accept it as the good spirited welcome that I intend it to be. Smile

O..
albanyams
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Mar 5, 2006

Re: "Chaining" TWO Compacts

To Kova, Maybe I missed it, but I anm getting another Compact. Would I use my mini (1/8?) out of my laptop into the 1/4 inch split (?) for both?

Thanks, Tim
kova
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Oct 5, 2008

Re: "Chaining" TWO Compacts

Hi Albany, Sorry about the delay in response.

If want to plug your laptop/MP3 player into (2) Compacts, there's a few ways to do it.

Chain both Compacts together using one mono or stereo (tip-ring-sleeve) patch cable from the "out" of the first Compact into the guitar insert of the second Compact. After they're connected, you can plug you're laptop in a few ways.

1) Use a 1/8 to 1/4 cable out of your laptop into the guitar insert of the first Compact. However, that takes up the guitar channel from being used for something else.

2) Use a 1/8 to a left and right RCA cable into the RCA input of the first Compact. You don't lose a channel doing this.

Personally, I suggest using option 2. You can buy a 1/8 to RCA cable for less than $10 bucks. They work/sound great, doesn't take up a channel on The Compact, weighs next to nothing and it's very small so it takes up less room in your cord bag.

I'm all about consolidating to carry as little gear as possible. I actually cut down a lot of weight in my cord bag by cutting custom lengths of all my cords so I'm not wasting a single inch or ounce of weight. I know that sounds excessive but doing that cut down a considerable amount of weight in my bag.

Cheers