Re: Soundtouch APP won't find speakers

mattius · ‎02-11-2018

I've never truely discovered why,

The speakers appear to have two wireless network cards, i've always assumed that they had this for potential future development to use their own internal network ala Sonos. The only time i have ever seen the second network used is when you are registering a speaker and it creates its own network.

It only ever connects to your network with one of the mac address' (one of the network cards) otherwise you would see two IP address' for each speaker (if you look at your connected devices on the router you will only see one mac listed), so i think you have hit a red herring in my view.

Im still convinced that some network interfierence is causing this issue, i did wonder if it could be due to the chromecast mdns bug, something seems to be causing the speakers to stop responding to the SSDP request, im thinking its something that the soundtouch doesn't understand and gets its knickers in a twist (hence chromcast flooding it with data makes sense), and hence why putting the speakers on their own network without external interfierence fixes it.

mattius · ‎02-13-2018

@Brandon_M @Jason_G

Are the developers actually looking at this? there must be 20+ threads about this, its been going on for months, we have been told it has been raised to the developers yet still no resolution, comment or fix?

Might it be worth putting a sticky thread about this like you did the play all issue? as you are just going to get constant threads about this till you resolve it.

lasure · ‎02-13-2018

There are only two possible reasons for the two MAC addresses:

Either they designed it to have one MAC address for each band (2.4 vs 5g) and/or (and this is actually my best guess) that they needed the second MAC address so that when the speaker is being setup and connecting to the network, it needs to connect with it "own" network and the wifi connection, and having one MAC address would not allow this.

It's been a month since I added them as static IP's and it's completely solved the problem, whereas before I could not go even a few hours without one of the units dropping off, or having to restart the ST app several times a day, not to mention close and reopen when launching it to make it find the speakers.

it is NOT and interference issue; I am in a desnly populated commercial and residential area and there are (Not exaggerating) over 100 wifi networks I can pick up here. Every single band is clogged and to make matter worse, my facility is a commercial soundproofed building (i.e. double layer dywall both sides, metal stud, dense insulation) meaning even the 2.4g band struggled.

I placed the new router as close to a center point for the WLA's as possible and even then was only able to get 60db at point of reception. I swore this/interference was the problem but switching to static IP's solved it entrely. It's rock solid now, which makes me belive that even if interferance was compunding the issue, it's more a DHCP/Dynamic IP problem.

All bose need to do is include setting Static IPs as part of the their setup instructions for anyone experiencing issues. There's virtually no routers on the market that don't allow you to easily set static IP's (Anyone reasding that this has PORTAL Router, you're screwed as it doesn't allow static IPs) and I was able to do it in under 5 mins, never having done it before.

Again, I did not have to mess with alterative MAC addresses, purely set the band I wanted to use and then assign the IPs. I also do not understand why people are using anything other than 2.4g - it's far more robust a signal than 5g and there's absolutely no need for anything more in terms of throughput/bandwidth than 2.4g. Finally, every router capable of 5g also already has 2.4g so again, there really is no argument not to use the 2.4g band. If it's a case of too many devices on your existing 2.4g router (some can only hand 20), then just buy another one for the Bose for $50 and be done with it. It's still a fraction of the cost of a Sonos system.

mattius · ‎02-13-2018

@lasure Whilst i apprecieate it may have solved your issue, Many people have tried the static IP address' including myself and it has not resolved the issue.

Thats not what i meant by network interfierence, you have described wifi interfierence i.e. clogged channels, what i am meaning it something on our networks is confusing the soundtouch, so either by requesting the SSDP too often, or sending it data it is not expecting.

Solid sandstone walls are much worse than any drywall btw, but the reason many people use the 5ghz band is that 2.4ghz band is quite congested in populated areas and no not the wifi networks you see, loads of devices use the 2.4ghz spectrum, radios, cordless phones, even bluetooth operates in this spectrum meanining you can get a lot of radio interfearence which causes dropped packets. I completely agree with you for range use 2.4ghz it will travel further and better through objects likes walls, however 5ghz is a much more stable and reliable connection, its not all about speed.

Every router is different, there is no way Bose could explain to everyone how to do it on their own router, and more to the point why should anyone have to do that? have you ever heard Apple or Sonos telling you to set a static IP to get their device to work? this is a software problem with the Soundtouch series that should be sorted by Bose not the end user.

lasure · ‎02-13-2018

@mattius

I understand what you're saying but the SS DP request is inherently related to DH CP, which was the crux of my particlular problem, and again, Static IP's instantly fixed this.

So are you saying that you dedicated a band (2.4g), fixed the IP of all the devices including the source (computer or tablet/phone) and you're still getting issues? You don't say in this thread exactly what your issue is? Are they dropping audio out? not connecting to the app in the first place? Do the units not connect to the ST App?

I can't really tell becuase you haven't gone in to detail either about what the problem is or what units you're using, but for me, I went in to exact place that the unit was, and did a wifi scan to check signal strength. My area is so congested (not to mention from interference like a neon sign we have is directly between the router and the unit, and then there's the 2.4g cordless phones, and lights etc) that it's purely a case of making my 2.4g network the strongest in the immediate area - essentially bullying eveything else out of the way. I pinpointed the best channel (only ever use 1,6 or 9) then changed placement of the router until I got a minimum of 60db for every unit placement. None of my units are more than 20ft away from the router, and it should be noted the best I could get for 5g in the same exact placements was 72db, which equates to what is classed a poor or weak signal.

If you're suggesting using 5g band and you have "solid sandstone" walls, then that - without doubt - is your problem. 5g by it's very nature has faster capabilities but travel is shoter and disapates much easier. 2.4g is slower but has considerably longer and more robust transmission due to the nature frequency power transmission.

Again, there's really no reason why anyone who is experincing problems with their bose units should use 5g - the bose units don't need the extra speed in data transmission and 2.4g is so much more robust if it has to go through walls etc. The only time you 5g makes sense is when it's easy distance (i.e through normal walls) and short distance, otherwise 2.4g even with normal external interference (bluetooth devices, flourescent lights, cordless devices etc) is going to be more stable.

I'd love to know what yuor db scan results gave in the areas with yuor speakers?

mattius · ‎02-13-2018

@lasure SSDP (Simple Service Discovery Protocol) aka Upnp, has absolutely nothing to do with DHCP it is completely unrelated other than the fact a device has to be connected to a network to receive the request.

We will have to agree to disagree on the 5ghz thing, you are correct on the range, however their are additional benefits.

Anyway im glad you got yours sorted, but as previously stated, static IPs do not fix this for everyone.

lasure · ‎02-13-2018

I'm aware SSDP is a seperate protocol from DHCP, but waht I'm saying is the devices, regardless of protocol (DHCP, Universal Plug and Play/SSDP) still have to aquire an IP address and therein lies the problem.

My router was showing the devices always connected with their relevant Dynamically assigned IP's - In fact, even when one speaker "disappeared" from the bose spp, it was still showing as connected to the router (in every instance). That was never the problem, it was simply that the soundtouch app was not able to recognize them on the network. Static IP and robust 2.4g dedicated network solved that.

You'll see the static IP fix has solved it for everyone in this thread. For some reason you won't go in to detail about your setup (what router, what speakers, what distances, what band etc) nor actually being clear in what problem you're specifically experiencing (app won't see the speakers on startup, they drop off, you're getting audio drop outs etc?). The only thing we do know is that you're trying to broadcast 5g through solid standstone walls, which isn't going to end well. Without that info, you're just moaning about your system not working.

At home I have a 300mbps connection on a dual band router. A computer is 40 ft away with direct line of sight between router and Mac, and on 2.4g I get a stable 120mbps but with 5g I get 30mbps if I'm lucky. This is in an uncongested area and I have virtually nothing to interfere with the signals. 5g really does degrade badly over distance and especailly so with obstacles in the way. Sure, the bands can be less congested but 99% of the time, when trying to go through walls or around corners or further distances, 2.4g is the clear winner.

You could have a fault with your router, there may be port issues, who knows but you seem to be somewhat alone as the dropout fixes have been somewhat nullified by the recent update combined with static IP fix.

mattius · ‎02-14-2018

I am not just moaning...

Why should people have to set static ip's in the first place for an off the shelf product? you would laugh if apple told you you had to give your iphone a static ip for it to work for instance.

Im not going into the details of my network on purpose, i use it for buisness and pleasure so it would not be appropriate for me to detail it, however i have the whole house gigabit networked with 2 industrial grade access points and an industry grade router.

My point about 5ghz is that if you can and have strong signal it is preferable to use it, yes it will not get the range and yes towards the end of its range it detteriorates, but in its optimum range it is more stable for connections. 40ft in your case (sounds an impressive house without any obstructions over 12m, congrats, im jealous) is quite a large distance of course it is going to deteriorate. Our rule of thumb at work is to have an access point every 12m for internal building using 5ghz signal, 2.4ghz we generally say <50m, so in your case you are well on the edge of those ranges. However joe public with their router in the same room as their soundtouch or one room appart 5ghz would be a better option than 2,4ghz with less interfierence.

When the app does not communicate with the speaker, the speaker is available by ping, websocket and webinterface allong with the router showing the speaker is connected and lease is active, also on the access point the speakers are connected to there are zero dropped packets, so the speaker has an ip and is online.

Interestingly as an experiment last night i connected 1 of my 4 speakers (Soundtouch 20) wired to the gigabit network, since then (its still early days) all speakers show up in the app instantly. Confusing me as all other speakers remain unchanged on the same network they were previously and yet previously sometimes they appeared sometimes they didn't. I wonder if one failing to respond causes the app confusion, im lost, i give up, it works so far.

Hwalker1 · ‎02-14-2018

@mattius wrote:
@Brandon_M @Jason_G
Are the developers actually looking at this? there must be 20+ threads about this, its been going on for months, we have been told it has been raised to the developers yet still no resolution, comment or fix?

Going on for months indeed. Its now Late February 2018 and the new bit of kit that i just bought says plug it in and load the app. It still will not conect to my speakers. In fact the Soundlink Micro peakers are not even supported.
Rubbish software.

Buddhaken · ‎03-03-2018

I have had two Bose Soundtouch 10 speakers for three months and I have to say, the speakers are nice - when they work. The software is a bag of worms - absolute rubbish. I have to re-set everything evry time I want to use it, which I hardly bother to do any more. A complete waste of £320!

@mattius wrote:
A lot of people are experiencing this since 14.0.33, i have pointed out to Bose what is wrong in a thread weeks/months ago, although as usual that got ignored.

Since 14.0.33 the speakers stop responding to SSDP requests randomly after a period of innactivity, the only solution is to power cycle the speaker, sometimes they last a few days, sometimes a week, but eventually they just stop responding to the SSDP request.

It seems to be worse the 2.4ghz wifi on the soundtouch (bose will say its interfernece, interestingly nothing else suffers as bad as the soundtouch), if you have it try switching your speakers to a 5ghz network.

The standard response from Bose for most things is to power cycle your router, its the speaker at fault not the router.