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Slaughter
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Jan 16, 2019

4 812s/ sub coupling

Hey everyone, I have an out door gig (live band) I have 4 812s and 2 subs. I would like to run 2 812s (full range setting), 2 812s (with sub setting) out to subs. How do I set this up? I would also like to try putting subs together in a corner, how beneficial would it be? Thanx!!!

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ST - Pro
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Re: 4 812s/ sub coupling

Hi Slaughter,

Thanks for the interesting question.

Here are the main things you need to know.

  • The F1 Model 812 Line Out is not affected by the EQ setting (FULL RANGE or WITH SUB)
    • This means you can
      • Connect a signal to one F1 Model 812 (the first F1) and set the EQ the way you want
      • Connect the first F1 Line Out to another F1 Model 812 (the second F1) and set the EQ the way you want
      • Note: The second F1 volume will be affected by changes you make to the volume controls on the first F1

  • There is not much value in placing two F1 Model 812s together (or stacked) in one location.  In theory, you might get up to +3 dB gain in SPL, but you may also introduce Multiple Source Interference because the F1 Model 812s are providing the mid-high frequencies. You don't get the benefits of acoustic coupling you might expect from putting subwoofers together

  • If you use four F1 Model 812s (instead of two), put the F1 Model 812s where you need the sound (not bundled together hoping that two together will cover more area than one)
  • Putting two F1 Subwoofers together will
    • Allow them to couple and act as one unit (because you are working with low frequencies)
    • Give you up to +6 dB SPL more than when they are separated
    • Avoid issues with Multiple Source Interference
  • Putting the F1 Subwoofers together in a corner may
    • Give you more bass in the room because you trigger the boundary effect. This is dependent on the construction of the walls and floor. If the materials are too light to reflect the sound, placing the the F1 Subwoofers in the corner may not make much difference.


Give yourself time to experiment with different positions for the loudspeakers. You won't know how things will sound until you try things in the room.

Does that help?
ST

Slaughter
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Re: 4 812s/ sub coupling

Hey ST, so I come out of mixer to 812 (full range) to 812 (with sub) to sub? I plan on using 2 812s as side fills or laid on their side facing audience in center of stage. Will that work? 

While running subs together do I connect them as I normally do, coming out of 812s to subs? Or daisy chain subs together? Would It work better setting up aux channel for subs? Is there going to be a delay issue moving subs? 

Sorry for all the probably dumb questions, I'm not a sound guy! 

Thank you!!

ST - Pro
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Re: 4 812s/ sub coupling

Hi Slaughter,

Slaughter posted:

Hey ST, so I come out of mixer to 812 (full range) to 812 (with sub) to sub?

Sure, that should be fine.

I plan on using 2 812s as side fills or laid on their side facing audience in center of stage. Will that work? 

When you set up the F1 Model 812 horizontally, using the C-position for the array (for the widest horizontal coverage), you will get about forty degrees of horizontal dispersion. Keep that in mind and space them out so you get the most coverage, rather than have them end to end in the center of the stage.



While running subs together do I connect them as I normally do, coming out of 812s to subs?

Yes, if you're running stereo but you may not get quite as much increase for having them together if the inputs are not identical.

Or daisy chain subs together?

Yes, if you're running mono.

However, there may not be much difference between running them as you normally do, or daisy chaining the F1 Subwoofers (except shorter cable runs). 

Would It work better setting up aux channel for subs?

Not necessarily better, but different. If you use the ToneMatch Presets, you shouldn't have much unnecessary low-end content coming through the microphones.

Check out Pros and Cons of Aux Fed Subs

Is there going to be a delay issue moving subs? 

It depends on how far the F1 Subwoofers are from the F1 Model 812s. There will be a delay but it might not be noticeable with the low frequencies we're talking about.  Count on about one millisecond for each foot that separates the loudspeakers. You're probably okay up to 20-30 feet.

You mentioned placing the F1 Subwoofers in a corner. This is an outdoor gig - so ... corner of what?


If this is the corner of a temporary structure (e.g., tent, trailer) it may not be significantly different than leaving the F1 Subwoofers out in the open.

Sorry for all the probably dumb questions, I'm not a sound guy! 

Thank you!!

These aren't dumb questions, but we can't predict what will happen with any certainty. Go early so you can experiment with the speaker placement.

ST

Slaughter
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Re: 4 812s/ sub coupling

Yes, the gig is out doors. But has a roof, and a few small walls. One has a decent size wall/corner behind the band. I have the presonus studiolive 16.4.2 AI mixer. I think the L/R output is mono? Thanx for all the help ST!!!!

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Re: 4 812s/ sub coupling

Hi Slaughter,

Slaughter posted:

Yes, the gig is out doors. But has a roof, and a few small walls. One has a decent size wall/corner behind the band.

This is dependent on the construction of the walls and floor. If the materials are too light to reflect the sound, the sound will be absorbed or  pass through them. When that happens, you don't get the boundary effect.

I have the presonus studiolive 16.4.2 AI mixer. I think the L/R output is mono?

You have lots of routing options on the Presonus Studiolive 16.4.2 AI mixer. However, if you use the Left and Right main outputs to side of your setup,

pan all the inputs up the middle.

This will give you dual mono - and that should work for what you're doing.



Thanx for all the help ST!!!!

Get there early.

ST

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Re: 4 812s/ sub coupling

Hi again Slaughter.

How wide is the stage, and what are the dimensions of the audience area (the area you will cover with the sound system)?

ST

Slaughter
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Re: 4 812s/ sub coupling

Ok, that makes sense!!! Thank you.

I've also heard about turning one sub in the opposite direction for a cardioid effect, would that help?

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Re: 4 812s/ sub coupling

Hi Slaughter,

Slaughter posted:

Ok, that makes sense!!! Thank you.

I've also heard about turning one sub in the opposite direction for a cardioid effect, would that help?

You can probably use the Bose F1 Subwoofers in a cardioid directional subwoofer array, but you'll need a way to reverse the polarity of the signal, add a digital delay, and do some math. Here's an article

Cardioid Directional Subwoofer Arrays.

I don't have Bose specific recommendations for this approach.

ST

Slaughter
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Re: 4 812s/ sub coupling

Hey, I just saw your comment regarding stage size. Stage about 15'wide 10'deep. 20'w x 55'L (audience area) bar in the middle of audience.  Thanx!!