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ccc1
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Mar 29, 2018

Accelerometer in the S1 Pro (Auto EQ feature)

ST interesting articles but they leave me very concerned about reactive time and perhaps atmospheric pressure drops. My cell phone Accelerometer is very slow in determining a vertical or horizontal position. When it reaches a point it tends to overreact wth speed. Its reactive time or over reactive time is often annoying.  Hard drives are slowly being phased out in favor of electronic drives, leaving plater spin, warpage and heads bouncing a thing of the past. So does barometric changes like sudden drops effect the reading of the Accelerometer

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ST - Pro
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May 11, 2020

Re: Accelerometer in the S1 Pro (Auto EQ feature)

Hi ccc,

Are you experiencing any issues with the Auto EQ feature in your S1 Pro?

ST

ccc1
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Re: Accelerometer in the S1 Pro (Auto EQ feature)

I am asking you about the articles that you recommended and the inherent stability? I do read the info you recommend, always interesting but these articles left me with more questions with the stability and with my S1 EQ when on a tilt often sounds a little like Elvin. I re EQ after the S1 to readjust the tilt EQ. The questions pertains basically to the articles referenced by you and understanding the examples given in the articles how Bose prevents static changes from being compensated for since it reactive. 

ST - Pro
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Re: Accelerometer in the S1 Pro (Auto EQ feature)

Hi ccc,

ccc posted:

ST interesting articles but they leave me very concerned about reactive time and perhaps atmospheric pressure drops. My cell phone Accelerometer is very slow in determining a vertical or horizontal position. When it reaches a point it tends to overreact wth speed. Its reactive time or over reactive time is often annoying.  Hard drives are slowly being phased out in favor of electronic drives, leaving plater spin, warpage and heads bouncing a thing of the past. So does barometric changes like sudden drops effect the reading of the Accelerometer

I glanced through A Beginners Guide to Accelerometers and Accelerometers: What They Are & How They Work and didn't see any references to "atmospheric pressure drops" or "barometric changes".

I couldn't see the connection between the Auto EQ functionality in the S1 Pro and your question.

ccc posted:

I am asking you about the articles that you recommended and the inherent stability? I do read the info you recommend, always interesting but these articles left me with more questions with the stability and with my S1 EQ when on a tilt often sounds a little like Elvin. I re EQ after the S1 to readjust the tilt EQ.

If you hear the EQ changing even though you have not changed the position of the S1 Pro or the tone controls, and nothing else in the environment has changed, then maybe something is amiss. It might be time to call Bose Support.

The questions pertains basically to the articles referenced by you and understanding the examples given in the articles how Bose prevents static changes from being compensated for since it reactive.

Specifical details of how Bose engineered the AutoEQ with the accelerometer are proprietary so we won't be discussing things in that level of detail here.

Bose thinks and obsesses about those things so we don't have to.

Bose subjects all it's products to rigorous testing. I've been through the facilities and met the engineers. The things that Bose puts those products through are brutal; well beyond anything you are likely to do to your S1 Pro.  

ST

ccc1
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Re: Accelerometer in the S1 Pro (Auto EQ feature)

St please don't take this personally but all companies say they do rigorous testing and do. All stand behind their companies, I was referring to the articles and the questions they bring up. Some deeper conversations may have us look at Bose more completely instead of just seeing problems within the this forum. Not looking for any deep secrets of Bose's future development, besides Bose has been copied and dissected many, many times over and many clones out there. My question relates to the functionality not Bose's reputation. (A hard ware issue.)

I still have the image of my cell phone trying to flip in a reasonable manor from the article. That analogy begs many questions about it in sound situations. Please direct me to an article that may clarify this in audio situations. This is a question not a crucifixion.

ST - Pro
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Re: Accelerometer in the S1 Pro (Auto EQ feature)

Hi ccc,

ccc posted:

St please don't take this personally but all companies say they do rigorous testing and do. All stand behind their companies,

My personal take is; I have been through the Bose facilities and met the team behind the Bose Portable PA products. 

I was referring to the articles and the questions they bring up. Some deeper conversations may have us look at Bose more completely instead of just seeing problems within the this forum. Not looking for any deep secrets of Bose's future development, besides Bose has been copied and dissected many, many times over and many clones out there. My question relates to the functionality not Bose's reputation. (A hard ware issue.)

I still have the image of my cell phone trying to flip in a reasonable manor from the article.

The S1 Pro needs only to recognize if it is vertical, tilted back, or horizontal, and it only has to do that after it has been picked up and the orientation has changed.  

The requirements for your cell phone are different from the S1 Pro and inferences about one may not be applicable to the other.

That analogy begs many questions about it in sound situations. Please direct me to an article that may clarify this in audio situations. This is a question not a crucifixion.

At this point I'd be doing the same thing you can do; searching the web for relevant articles. I'll step back and you can take the reins.

If you find more information that's applicable, please share it and perhaps others will join the conversation.

ST

Dave_Hazel
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Re: Accelerometer in the S1 Pro (Auto EQ feature)

Accelerometer's do not suffer from atmospheric pressure changes and are undoubtedly temperature compensated if its required.

Accelerometer's are used in countless applications. One particular application might build confidence. They are used as an alternative to a mechanical gyroscope in model helicopters to automatically keep it from persistently rotating the hole craft. I does this by trying to stay where it finds itself. If the wind blows it off course the accelerometer outputs  data that keeps a record of the movement.  Form that it feeds instructions to the tail rotor forcing it to follow the reverse path back to where it started. Anyway, my point is, they work incredibly well fixed into a machine that will subject to vibrations, jumping about, changes in altitude and temperature.

Accelerometer's are tough, quite accurate and reliable IF the software it needs is up to the job that is. The Bose might not use an accelerometer, I'm pretty sure there are level sensing devices, an electronic plum line type thing, or a proportional tilt sensor... 

Must be 25 or more years ago I made a level sensor for an automatic 'Ship to Shore Gangway' leveling system. I simply fitted a pendulum to a potentiometer, so a simple change in voltage told the system to go up or down till level again... its still working to this day.  

ccc1
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Re: Accelerometer in the S1 Pro (Auto EQ feature)

Yes I know mine in my cell phone is inaccurate and many people turn them off because they are annoying and inaccurate. Many of the issues regarding consumer products have been evidenced in products like cell phones. Check out your cell phone and watch how it gets to vertical to horizontal. You know as well as I it depends on the type and the quality of the materials. I want to know what type and what quality are being used in speakers (audio) for auto adjustment of the eqs? How sensitive are they and are the eq points flat and tilt only or does it really react to gravity and adjust to unusual angles?  Or does it only react to two sedentary positions flat and  tilt (degree)? Using the bose S1 as example the angle of tilt is it fixed? Is it designed to read two points only flat verses tilt angle. Does it read the gravitational change in height? What type of Accel. is in the S1 crystal? ... .... .... what is the reaction angles lets say 0 being flat 75 full tilt, does it react to the angles between these to points? Every consumer product I have had in the past were very much affected by extreme pressure changes. So I want to know the effects on audio. Bose poses a new study for me determining the accuracy and latency on audio. So if you know of some reference material it would be appreciated. This will aid me in understanding some of the issues mentioned on the forum and get a better understanding of the drawbacks and the benefits.

These are my questions not they if they have been in use or not. I am talking consumer, not ships, not rockets or capsules.

ccc1
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Re: Accelerometer in the S1 Pro (Auto EQ feature)

Thanks ST and Dave, any help with this in audio will be appreciated. ST I tend to be short with you sometimes my shortcoming if you can handle me and all the other assorted characters on this forum more power to you.

Dave_Hazel
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Re: Accelerometer in the S1 Pro (Auto EQ feature)

Where I work I'm a senior R&D engineer, I lean towards mechanical design, prototyping and Production Engineer, just making it clear I'm not an electronics or software engineer but the subjects are not alien to me.

We use an accelerometer in our Staff Protection device in conjunction with an altimeter. The altimeter can detect a change in height as little as 1 foot. With the combined data we can detect if a person is standing, sitting, laying down or walking up or down stairs. If an unexpected movement occurs we assume the person may have been subjected to something unfortunate in which case an alarm is radioed to a control point.

I mention this to emphasise and qualify my comment that the software is the really crucial part, if the software is lacking in any way effectively it doesn't matter what the quality of the sensor is.

If I wanted to make adjustments to an audio device automatically based on the angle it is set at, I think I would have saved everyone a lot of time and money and made it semi-automatic with a knob on the side of the box with an arrow on it and a label that says... "Keep this pointed upward" this could also be fully proportional. An alternative to that could be 3 tilt switches to detect when set in each of the 3 positions, this wouldn't need the software the accelerometer needs.

What about this idea... what if I listen to the speaker and adjust the EQ until it sounds good. I could then spend all the money and human resources that I've saved on something much more useful to my customers....

So what about this... set up a system in a venue for best sound/response. Then at the sweet-spot record sound pulses emitted from the sound system at high and low inaudible frequencies, creating an acoustic map. Repeat the  whole process at different temperatures, air pressures and audience load and different venues.

Might it then be possible by referring to the 'acoustic maps' and silently 'sounding' the environment to set up pretty much the whole system automatically? Then just add a MIDI sequencer and some nice electronic music and voicing and then we can all stay at home!